In front of Singha Durbar: Nepali people are constantly pressurizing to their leaders who have assumed the responsibility of fulfilling their aspirations. Pics by Wagle
The best thing about democracy is that it lets people have their say. Another hallmark is that the folks at the government can’t stop people from raising their voices. Here is an example. Protests right in front of the gate of Singha Durbar yesterday and today signal the arrival of free days. In the days of autocracy of king Gyanendra, the government declared many places of Kathmandu restricted for public demonstrations. No one could have even imagined of protesting freely at the west gate of Singha Durbar like hundreds of protesters did yesterday and this afternoon. This right to protest really makes difference.
These are the people who fought for freedom and now they are warning their own government to work for people. They were carrying placards that said not to promote corrupt politicians, not to forget the agendas of the Jana Andolaan (Peoples’ Movement). And of course, they were saying that all they want is to see Nepal without monarchy. Here are a few images from today’s gathering in front of Singha Durbar.
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Comments
162 responses to “Monitoring Leaders From The Streets”
Taaya,
where have I mentioned that the Brahmins etc. are the most forward people in this country? I doubt you are reading what I have written.
Please read before attacking arguments. Ask if you do not understand what is being said. Do not assume and presume.
I encourage anyone of any origin with the leadership, integrity and courage necessary to come foward and help bring peace and stability to Nepal. What we have now will not work.
For Kirat: are you not aware that the Kirat people are mentioned in the Christian Bible? And that the Seal of Solomon is used in Nepal’s symbolism? Not that any of this is pertinent to what we are discussing, which is Nepal’s future.
That’s fine Bideshi-but I was attacking your views on affirmative action. I get a bit heated up now and then-no offence meant-but how do you expect me to react when you say it puts in less capable people with less competent decision making capabilities when we are talking about janjatis in general?
Bideshi-Forgive me for being a know all but there is even a theory that Kirats maybe one of the lost tribes of Israel (I don’t go for it). We are also quite prominently mentioned in the Mahabharatta.
I would also like to mention that the key phrase is “equal opportunity in the beginnings” and not “equal opportunity in the end results”.
We have to invest in education so much so that all the people have an opportunity for quality education – this is what I mean by equal opportunity in the beginning. I think all of us have to push for this.
But, I do not believe in quota for jobs in govt. etc. because this is what I mean by – “equal opportunity in the end results”.
If people have the right qualifications they should get the job period. But, just giving seats to people in search of equality by numbers is taking the country in the wrong direction. After all quality is more important than quantity.
Tommorow, a sub groub amongst the quota group may say we have been supressed even more so we should get 50% of the quota rights. How is one to distinguish which minority group, women, etc. are to get what percentage of the quota. Is it the less the number of people in that group the more the quotas? How do we calculate who has been disadvantaged the most? After all there are only a limited number of seats.
I still maintain that the fair competition model will still prove that the disadvantaged groups will be representing a large chunk, as I have said now for the upteenth time, they have the capability.
But since people here seem to argue for arguments sake – Let me pose the question – Who would want to hire people who just do not cut it whether they are janjatis, women or Brahmins from the Koirala clan? Would we like people to work for us who are’nt qualified? Would you let a quack doctor operate on you?
That is why we have to begin at the most logical point – the beginning- equal opportunity in education for all.
In any case Kirat, we share a common desire: a better future for Nepal. Your priorities are different from mine but that doesn’t mean that we should quarrel but rather work together. Divisiveness is what has got us in this mess.
Fine with me Bideshi! By the way on what particular Nepali symbol is the Seal of Solomon used? Of this matter I am completely ignorant-but interested to know something.
Look at the star on the King’s military cap. It is also known as a star of David.
UWB what is happening in this post it all comes lines crossed. can’t you people correct it ?
UWB,
Actually the views expressed by Thomas Marks is pretty interesting. It is shameful that UWB stick to a one track view and condemn peoples articles without a proper counter argument. This one track thinking will get you no where, unless you support certain vested groups like the maoists etc. Try and see all sides to the argument, that is what blogging should be about. You cooly mention that you have posted his views in keeping up with freedom of expression or whatever, but I have seen this article before in your blog posted by someone else, and the very fact that you have chose to post such a notice in someones article infact makes me think out loud – THIS GUY MUST BE ON TO SOMETHING.
oh yeah, thanks!
UWB,
You were all gung ho and reported every move of Gyanendra. Please tell us about what the maoists are up to? Why so quiet on them? They are the biggest threat to democracy now. What’s up? You are blogging for democracy you say, so why all this silly pieces on what a Chinese thinks of the monarchy etc. etc. We need to be informed on what the maoists are up to? Let’s go!
hey chanke,
i said chanke and gang: the ones against quota system(sorry i got your name first ). that particular view might not be yours but might be of high caste hari, replytoall or layman or bdeshi.
how can i interpret when people say incompetent people will fill when there will be quota system.
as if without quota , all competent ones are there.
i respect your effort to make an overall fair system. we will work on that but now urgent need and easier,practical solution is quota system.
making an overall fair system is a very long and complicated one and do u want to say that we should wait outside the door until there is a good fair system while all these bauns and chettris are having their fun?? we have waited long dear, now we want the actions.
i again ask why people get stuck in the tangle of technical problems when the real problem is a strategical one.
in every road , there are problems, obstacles.
but the point is that the road should head in the right direction.
Taaya,
Why don’t the govt. recall for all the jobs phase wise, starting from tomorrow. Let people fill up the applications and give the exams without giving their sirnames. Just have a number assigned to the first name. Then select from the exam results and questionaires given to fill the posts.
Eg.
Form # 9210
Name: Girija
Age: 84
Post applied for: Pune, Ministry of Information
Total score on exam:
Most of us are not privy to the Maobadi’s plans so cannot say. What is known is that all other Nepalis must unite to prevent them from taking over. The political in-fighting must stop. Able leaders must be found. Time is short.
Can’t say what their plans are, but our friends at the media have great imagination. The least they can do is stick to their norm and guess. Voices have to be heard. Media should try to unearth stories from the countryside. After all they have come up with a number of stories for everything concerning Gyanedra. Example: CP’s car bumps into a wedding party car. or CP beat up this onme and that one.
If such personal incidents can be written about, why can’t there be articles on the maoists?
Or is everybody just stuck to their computers and chya churot talks amongst themselves?
Don’t misunderstand my objection to affirmative action. My concern is that the most capable lead. Many from formerly disadvantaged groups have obtained education, business and management skills abroad when such opportunities did not exist for them in Nepal. I appeal to them now to return to Nepal and help us build a new future for the nation. NRN are you listening?
Taaya and Kirat,
Agreed, I was born in a so-called upper class but I never claimed myself as being superior. Have I ever said that anywhere?
So, get your proof before making insane claims. Such claims should not be done in forum like this unless you know me for sure.
Frankly, I come from one of the most remote parts of Nepal and despite being from a so-called (remember I never subscribed to the caste system) upper class, my family did not have enough to pay for my college. I struggled with scholarships and hard work.So, don’t make baseless claims.
Secondly, you are the guys who are making discrimination against the lower caste people. I believe they can be equally good if not better. So, my proposition is that we should base our decision purely on merit. I am sure there are a lot of people from the so-called lower caste who are highly competent. If we have to change the way people are recruited, do it but for gods sake, please don’t make decisions just because you think it is fair.
Affirmative action is unfair by its very name. Not all of bahuns or chetris have sucked up the country or involved in corruption. What do you say to the poor bahun folks when they are discriminated in favor of other castes just because they were born in the so-called higher caste?
The very idea of affirmative action implies that those people who are to benefit cannot compete with the other world. Otherwise why would we need it in the first place? So, it is not me but you who is thinking the people from lower caste are less competitive.
I strongly believe that if we have proper monitoring of the recruiting process, there will be much more than 30% of so-called lower caste people in the civil service. I know some of my friends from those castes who are much more competent than me. So, do reforms in the recruitment process, and put the plan about affirmative action in the shadow.
So called NRN chief is a Belarus mafia and he wants to make the Black money to white money through NRN. All other people are behind in his leadership. Leader of NRN must change now.
NRN people are only patriotic from outside. They cannot leave their country of residence because they cannot earn that amount of money in Nepal.It is very simple my friend Bideshi.
I cannot agree more than Hari’s views.But I think recruitment process should be completely revised. Like, people from tarai can not compete because of their insufficiencies in Nepali language. There are others also who have such problem;
Here is one evidence of the fact that affirmative action is failing. This was written by Sacks.
“The fundamental unfairness and arbitrariness of preferences — why should the under-qualified son of a black doctor displace the qualified daughter of a Vietnamese boat refugee?” taken from the text itself…
Visit the following link if you want to see more on this.
And here is one more that I want you guys to read before comment on my posts.
Past discrimination cannot be undone with another discrimination at present. This will only foster animosity.
I don’t understand why you have to moderate at one time and not at other times. I am really sick of this moderation strategy UWB.
Hari:
Yes this UWB’s moderation pisses me off also but wagle/acharya don’t give a rat’s ass.
This Tayaa is a very dramatic fellow who just loves to twist and turn things and put words in your mouth and he/she makes no sense half the time – so I am not going to bother with him/her.
Now on to more serious stuff. When I mentioned yeasterday that there needs to be equitable growth I didn’t mean equal income for everyone. I was not advocating a socialist policy. What I meant was an equal opportunity for all. Right now the problem is many ethnic groups in Nepal who have been marginalized don’t in fact have an equal opportunity. More then civil service, as Kirat favors, I am in favor of increasing quotas in educational institutions. Or also concentrating development efforts in areas where these marginalized ethnic groups live – in particular emphasizing education. You see your philosophy of let things work out on their own works only on a theoritical standpoint. Given Nepal’s current socio-economic reality there is a strong case for intervention.
“What do you say to the poor bahun folks when they are discriminated in favor of other castes just because they were born in the so-called higher caste?”
But what do you say or rather what have we been saying to the poor Dalits etc. who have been discriminated against because they were born in a so-called lower caste?
Exactly my point Bhudai.
We should work to make sure the best gets the job. I am for it. Make necessary laws to ensure everyone gets the opportunity to display their talents and get a job in which they are relatively more efficient than others.
So, one time discrimination cannot be eliminated with another discrimination but rather the creation of equal opportunity should be our goal. I know people from the so-called lower castes are equally competent and they will fare well if we can get people to the jobs on the basis of merit.
But Hari … affermative action doesn’t mean hiring less competant people.
Well if you look at the meaning, affirmative action does mean favoring less competent people on the basis of their race or origin or caste or whatever you take into account. How can you say it does not mean hiring less competent people when you are going to fix a quota?
And if you are correct, and if affirmative action does not mean hiring less competent people, why do we need it in the first place? Now my solution works for you too right? Make sure the best gets the job. So, if they are good, they will get the job.
Hi Pundit, That’s what galls me! As soon as we talk about affirmative action a lot of people assume ‘less competent people’.
How would Hari explain the fact that over 98% of the government jobs in Nepal are held by bahun and chettri’s when their total population is only around 25% of the overall Nepali population? Surely there is something amiss here right from the grassroots to the top.
Hari you racist idiot-you think affirmative action means hiring less competent persons? Do you know what a level playing field is? Now I know how your brain works and it disgusts me! You live in the US don’t you? They should report you to the ACLU and deport morons like you!
Kirat,
Your reply shows where you stand. I am not denying the fact that many lower caste people are equally competent. See the previous posts. But what I am saying is that fixation of quota inherently implies the recruitment of less competitive people.
Why not go for the best? If we have 90% of the workers from lower caste, I am fine with it. All I want is that they be the best people, the most efficient.
And you come up with all sorts of insane remarks. This shows who you are buddy. Take a cool pill and refresh yourself a while.
Hari, tell me what a level playing field is. Tell me why 98% of all government jobs in Nepal are held by bahuns and chettri’s and then I will tell you what the truth is, OK?
I tell you how less competent people will be selected when there would be quota. If there are 100 people to recruit, let us say, there is a quota of 20 seats for Janajatis. Twenty janajati will be selected at the end according to the quota.
But when there will be no qouta at all for 100 seats, there will be diffrent people would be selected on the basis of only merit.Let us say by this method, 8 janajati were selected. That means by the first method, 12 more Janajatis people would have been selected who would not be that competent at the expense other talented people. I hope my example gives you guys the clear picture.
“Hari you racist idiot-you think affirmative action means hiring less competent persons? Do you know what a level playing field is? Now I know how your brain works and it disgusts me! You live in the US don’t you? They should report you to the ACLU and deport morons like you! ”
Should I talk more with you when you are angered and furious, losing your rational mind?
What needs to be done?
Develop infrastructures and make sure people in every nooks and corners get the opportunity to explore their potential. Employing 30% lower caste people will not change the scenario. So, why do you want to instigate a new wave of discrimination?
And , did you read the following articles?
http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/1996/sepoct/articles/against.html
http://www.dean.usma.edu/english/pojman/PublishedWorks/AffirmativeAction.html
And I always said, I would welcome any mix of people be it 99% janajati or 10% janajati in the government jobs. All I wanted was that there should be efficient people for the jobs.
Hari, you can’t answer my questions can you? I will tell you the truth anyway…the truth is that there is already an affirmative action programme in Nepal. And this affirmative action programme action is very successful. So much so that it has managed to capture 98% of all government jobs-this affirmative action has been designed to benefit bahuns mostly, but also a few chettris. This is the truth-and I know it will be very painful for a lot of you to accept, but the truth is always like that.
Kirat,
Don’t have LINDE BUDDHI like KG. Please tell me, could you understand my example above ?. What do you have to say on that ?
Layman, they do say not to say anything if you have nothing good to say. Eight out of hundred? Who are you kidding? What kind of example is this? The cold, hard statistic is not even one janjati out of one hundred. Ask Kanak Mani Dixit. He wrote the article sometime back in Himal South Asia magazine. Can’t you just try and see if something is wrong instead of dismissing my arguments?
धोका दिंदैछन् गिरिजाप्रसाद
तपाइ हामी सवैलाइ थाहा भएको कुरा हो कि नवनियुक्त प्रधानमन्त्री गिरिजा प्रसाद कोइराला केही दिन अघि विमार थिए । तर के तपाइलाइ थाहा छ उनि किन विमार थिए अब तपाइलाइ लाग्यो होला कि यो के बेतुकको प्रश्न हो अरे यार हाड छालाको शरीर हो जुनसुकै बेला विमार हुन सक्छ त्यसमाथि पनि बुढो शरीर । बिमार हुन पनि कुनै कारण चाहिन्छ ।
हो तपाइले ठीक सोच्नुभयो मलाइ पनि शुरुमा त्यही लागेको हो । तर अहिले देशमा विकसित नयाँ घट्नाक्रमलाइ नजिकबाट नियालेर हेर्नुहोस तपाइलाइ वास्तविकता अलि फरक नजर आउनेछ । तल चर्चा गरिएको विषयलाइ यदि ध्यान दिएर हेर्नु भएमा मलाइ जस्तै तपाइलाइ पनि लाग्नेछ कि गिरिजाप्रसाद जनतालाइ धोका दिंदेछन् ।
१ वर्तमान गम्भीर र महत्वपूर्ण घडिमा कुनै पनि पदका विषयमा विवाद नउठोस र जनताको भावना अनुरुप
कार्य सम्पन्न होस् भन्ने पवित्र उद्देश्यले एमाले महासचिव माधवकुमार नेपालले गिरिजाप्रसाद कोइरालालाइ
प्रधानमन्त्रीका लागि प्रस्तावित गरे । एमाले महासचिव जो कांग्रेस विभाजित भएको वर्तमान अवस्थामा देशको
सवैभन्दा ठूलो राजनैतिक दलका नेता हुन् ले प्रधानमन्त्री पदका लागि आफु स्वयंलाइ प्रस्तावित गर्न सक्थे वा
अन्य साना दलका तर्फबाट आफ्नो नाम प्रस्ताव गराउन सक्थे । तर उनले त्यसो गरेनन् बरु राष्ट्र निर्माणको
अत्यन्त महत्वपूर्ण भूमिका निर्वाह गर्ने सहज होस् भनि गिरिजाप्रसाद कोइरालालाइ सर्वसम्मत नेता बनाए ।
एमाले महासचिवले यसरी सदासयता देखाएपछि चार चार पटक प्रधानमन्त्री भइसकेका गिरिजाले आफ्नो उमेरको
ख्याल राख्दै हैन माधवजी यस पटक तपाइले नेतृत्व गर्नुपर्छ भनेको भए के विग्रन्थ्यो । तर पद लोलुप
गिरिजाले त्यसो गरेनन् । आर्यघाटमा पुग्ने बेला भएका कृष्णप्रसाद भट्टराइलेझैं प्रम हुने रहर गरे । उनमा
त्याग गर्नसक्ने सामर्थ्य भएन ।
२ जनआन्दोलनबाट प्राप्त उपलब्धीको उपयोग गर्दै जनताका पक्षमा धडाधड निर्णयहरु गर्नुपर्ने महत्वपूर्ण समयमा
विमारीको बाहना गरी देशलाइ लामो समयसम्म शुन्यमा राख्ने जघन्य अपराध गरे । जनताको विचमा उभिएर
प्रतिवद्दता जनाउनु पर्ने वेला उनले विमारीको बहान गरे।
३ मैले ठोकुवाका साथ उनले विमारीको बाहना गरे भनि भन्दा तपाइलाइ अनौठो लाग्यो होला तर सत्य यही हो । यो कुराको पोल आजै मात्र खुलेको हो । एमाले र कंग्रेशको विचमा सामान्य सहमति के थियो भने नयाँ बन्ने
सरकारमा कंग्रेसका तर्फबाट प्रधानमन्त्री एमालेको तर्फबाट उपप्रधान र गृहमन्त्री रहने । तर प्रम विमार भएकाले
उनलाइ सघाउन कांग्रेसकै उपप्रधानमन्त्री बनाउनु पर्ने तर्क कांग्रेसले गरेको छ । यसरी प्रधानमन्त्रीऽ उपप्रधानऽ
रक्षाऽ गृह र सभामुख जस्ता शक्तिशाली र महत्वपूर्ण शक्तिकेन्द्र आफ्नो पोल्टामा पार्ने रणनीति अन्तर्गत गिरिजा प्रसाद विमार भएका रहेछन् ।
४ विश्वस्त शुत्रका अनुसार एमालेलाइ अहिले निल्नु न ओकल्नुको अवस्था बनाएका छन् गिरिजाले । केही वोलौं पदका लागि एमालेले बखेडा गर्यो भनेर मिडिया मार्फत एमालेको बद्ख्वाइ गर्ने काम थाल्नेछन गिरिजा अब केही नवोलौ भने सम्मानजनक ढंगले सरकारमा समावेश गर्न गिरिजा तयार छैनन् ।
५ ठुला र चर्का कुरा गर्ने गिरिजा दरवारमा राजासंगको गोप्य कुराकानीपछि दरवारप्रति नरम हुन थालेको पनि जानकारहरु बताउँछन् । एकातिर माओवादीलाइ वार्ताका लागि आह्वान गर्ने र अर्कोतर्फ उनिहरुमाथिका विल्लाहरु नहटाउने जस्ता काम भएका छन् ।
यसरी जनहितमा धडाधड निर्णय गरी निरंकुशताका जगहरुमा हमला गर्नुपर्ने यस्तो महत्वपूर्ण घडिमा यो वा त्यो स्वार्थपूर्ण बखेडा गरेर देशलाइ लामो समय भ्याकुम बनाइ प्रतिगामीलाइ नजानिदो पाराले खेल्ने मौका दिइ तमाम जनआन्दोलनकारीलाइ धोका दिंदैछन् गिरिजाप्रसाद कोइराला । तसर्थ हामी सचेत र होशियार रहनुपर्छ । जनता जागे भने राजा ज्ञानेन्द्र जस्ता तानाशाहा ढाल्न १९ दिन लाग्यो भने यी छोटा राजालाइ कति समय लाग्ला र ?
So then what is your arguement then ? All those who passed the exams were unqualified ? or They passed through undue means or influence. I wanted to be on the higher side, as it was just an example, to respect the people like you. If they cannot get through in a competitve exam, then they are not qualified. That’s why I suggested to change the curricula and other exam procees so that candidates can appear exams on an equal basis.
its true that more than 90% of government posts are occupied by bahun-chhetries. but i can not say they are all competent especially, when people believed most of the civil servents are incompetent, corrupt and are indulged in nepotism. and i believed most of bloggers agree on that. so what i believe is our priority is clean civil servant than competent or proportionate representation, no matter who represent how many. competency is something you can train but you can not train someone to be a clean person.
Layman, go to a school(or not go as it might be more than a days walk) to a school like the ones they have in our villages, after that give all your examinations in a language that you don’t speak at home, a school where the teacher hardly turns up, struggle and struggle through all that crap and somehow get through your SLC/Intermediate/Bachelors. And then sit for the PSC exams with other fellows who have had all the benefits that you never had access to-and inevitably fail to do better than them. Are you less competent? Is that a level playing field? That is why I have stated quotas for seats in higher educational institutions i.e intermediate,bachelors and above. Look at where all the good schools are- certainly not in Khotang or Manang or upper Dolpa. Look at the language certainly not Bantawa, Gurung or Maithili. How would you feel if you had to give your written exams in the language of the Neshyangs of Manang-even if you were given ten years to master it? Not as confident as the Neshyangs of Manang I bet. Do you now realise where the disadvantage and discrimination starts? Don’t you think such people deserve a little leg-up to level the playing field?
You go some way to addressing this problem with your last statement though.
Dude Kirat,
I am tired of your logic. A quota is not going to bring structural or cultural changes in the society in the long run. What we need is to invest on infrastructures so that these marginalised groups can come up and take advantage of the opportunities. I don’t understand how can such a few governement jobs be a matter of huge outcry when the population of more than 25 million has been suffering severe unemployment.
Your solution to the problem of a dying fisherman is to give him a fish, but what exactly needs to be done is that he needs a net so that he can fish every day. Different level of playing field does not justify the employment of inneficient people. Lets revitalise the education system. Lets change the laws so that the competent marginalised groups will get to fight with those bahuns and get jobs they deserve.
Please, do give a serious thought out here. I do not want to waste my time if you are to continue your haughtiness.
Look at USA, has the affirmative action helped? I wanted you to read some articles but this freaking site does not allow links without moderation. Sorry, they might appear after we are done with this thing.
Right so we should have an “affermative” action where the problem starts! For example, like I mentioned before, there should be more development effort in reagions/areas where marginalized communities live – with a strong emphasis on education!
Exactly,as I always said, focus on the infrastructures…but this is totally different from what Kirat talks about the quota. This is a long term solution.And for your kind information, this is not affirmative action in favor of lower caste people, everybody gets to enjoy the benefits.
well hari finally coming round huh? Sure the long term thing for a dying fisherman is to give him a fishing net or a new source of income. But the short term solution is to give him some food because he is ‘dying’. Do you think reservations need to be in place for ad infinitum? When the playing field has been leveled it’s each man for his own dude! Until then whatever works best, dude!
Hya Kasto MulaHaru ho, jatpat ko kura nikaldai chha. Lau abo jammai thar sar phal deu bhedra haru ho. Sabbaile aaba dekhi Kta bhe Nepali ra Kti bhe Nepalini Thar Rakhaun.
Sabbai samasya hal bhai halyo ni ta kaso Dajubhai tatha Didi bahini haru??? Yeuta sano advice yo GanGanekanchako!!
Jai Nepal ra Nepali/ni harus!!!
But Hari … at the same time I don’t think its a bad idea to have a quota system at like the Universities.
You see Hari one thing you groosly overlook is that Nepalis are in fact a very communial and ethno-centric… They maybe actually not hire the best all the time… You know how Nepal works – people are hired as favors, for nepotism, because they are in the same community etc. It’s not all completly determined by market forces … we have a very complex socio-economic structure and we as Nepalis are a very strange complex people!
KIRAT:
i dont know about u but i have seen been and lived my share of village to know how the life is over there. i am very aware of the discrimination that has happened and that is happening in Nepal. but only if talking and being anti bahun would help that. we all in nepal know that influence of the bahun community but are all bahuns employed… are all bahuns on the top. are there no any bahuns who have not got the job? majority in the posts are bahuns yes… that is a fact.. but do u think quota system will help by any means… now as u preach about democracy is that right to specifically make a room for some people who happens to be from a sepecific caste or jaat. now is that a fair system???
u talk just too big mr kirat… i dont know about u but i am very proud of my community but to say i am proud or to be proud i need not take the stand of anti bahun in everything.. i dont like to see my fellow janajati being pushed away because he/she happens to be from the janajati and equally i do not see it fair to see a person get previliges beause he/she is from the janajati.
there you go replytoall..at least some people understand it….keep watching kirat…