United We Fight Against Communal War in Nepal

Nepalis must be united to stop the jatiya yuddha that is beginning in our country

By Jiwan Limbu
From a UWB reader

“A strike called by the Limbuwan Swayatta Sarokar Manch (LSSM) on Tuesday (12 December) crippled life in nine districts east of Arun River. Today’s strike crippled life in Mechi’s Illam, Jhapa, Paanchthar, Taplejung and Koshi zone’s Dhankuta, Morang, Sunsari, Sankhuwasabha and Terhathum districts. Activists organized rallies and burnt tires on the roads, halting all traffic in the district headquarters. Organizers had called for the strike stating that the comprehensive national peace treaty between the seven-party alliance and the Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist) had ignored their demands to introduce a Limbuwan autonomous region during the elections for the constituent assembly. Limbuwan Swayatta Sarokar Manch, Sanghiya Limbuwan Rajya Parisar, Sanghiya Loktantrik Manch had jointly called for the strike.” -ekantipur news

It is time we Nepalis start talking about these issues seriously – not only concerning Limbuwans but the Sattars, Dalits and other marginalized groups. The current SPA-Maoist agreement is on very thin ice and can cave-in anytime since the whole Maoist revolution was based on many assurances to these groups e.g. autonomous status and a lot of other things. This “bandh” will trigger another and another by various groups who were promised similar things and will soon engulf the nation if a healthy discussion is not initiated. Of course, we have more critical things to solve right now, but instead of ignoring it altogether, we have chances to control it by initiating an honest and a healthy national discussion.

All responsible and educated mass must take up this challenge. We can endlessly talk about ideologies, etc etc, but we must not forget that the root cause of all our woes come from a very unequal and a disparate society and the political leaders who take advantage of it. I have strong views on this that we must make prudent efforts to bring everyone to an equal footing, introduce quota systems across all institutions including serious discussions on state restructuring (because the current set-up won’t work). This Maoist led civil war had a bona fide cause (though not necessarily the means to achieve them): that of fight against inequality, authoritarian monarchy etc. But the fight between Jatis and communities will be worse and uncontrollable that will forever psyche a nation. It will be a sectarian war, one like in Iraq between Shia, Sunni and Turks.

This time it will be a full-fledged Jatiya war. In fact it is already happening. And we must stop it.

NOW!!

Jiwan Limbu, (Patriot in UWB), is a Business Development Manager for a leading IT company in New Delhi. He is from Damak, Jhapa.

Published by UWB

Pioneering blog from Nepal...since 2004.

145 thoughts on “United We Fight Against Communal War in Nepal

  1. Patriot,

    Nowhere in the arguments I had advocated brahminism or maintaining status quo. That is the figment of your imagination. What I had pointed out is that quota based on ethnicity may not be a good idea because we have all seen what is happening in India. Please do not come with hypothetical statement that it will not happen in Nepal. What I would stress is that, rather than on basis of ethnicity, quota on basis of economic backwardness might be feasible. If you would see politics in this, then I am truly sad.

    On your statement is that ‘All dalits and janjatis are united’ does not hold any ground. I am involved with these communities for almost a decade and I am based in rural Nepal. From what I have experienced is that they are not united. For instance, a damai (tailor) would not socially accept sarki (cobbler) and take them as socially inferior. Another example is that mandal would not even drink water touched by paswan or mushar. They would not allow marriage within these communties or so-called intercaste marriages. Your raising guns or going to jungle by leaving jet set corporate career will neither change the fact that dalits are equally status and hierarchy conscious nor stand united as you claim. Presenting arguments filled with racial expletives will not make it any stronger. One more thing, all the community liberators are in Kathmandu raising lots of hue and cry in media. None of them come around to be involved in education sector or health sectors in these areas.

    Kirat,

    On one hand you accept that women are important part. On the other hand, you wish to ignore this issue because it does not suit your argument. We are not talking about chemical compounds that you isolate in a lab for a chemical test. Rather than me skirting the issues, you are skirting the issues. How cannot they mix? How women are treated depends upon upbringing which is defined by prevailing culture within that community which, in turn, is determined by ethnicity, among other thing. By ignoring women, you are already neglecting 51% of population. How will discrimination be corrected when half of the population is ignored? Or are you one of those pseudo liberators who believe only men should have access to priviledges?

  2. No Politics

    Am I spinning or are you going in circles? The only person around here who is making baseless arguments is you. You accuse everyone of hypothetical statements and yet fail to realize that it is you who is doing that. Allow me to start by debunking some of your outrageous statements:

    “What I had pointed out is that quota based on ethnicity may not be a good idea because we have all seen what is happening in India.”

    – What did we or should I say you saw in India? Please clarify and support your argument. Thank you! I have already pasted a link, hope you have checked it out by now.

    “What I would stress is that, rather than on basis of ethnicity, quota on basis of economic backwardness might be feasible.”

    – You have certainly misunderstood the motivation behind the reservation policy in India and are looking at just one aspect of it. Or perhaps you choose not to understand the goals of having a reservation policy or affirmative action not only in India but in many other countries. Let me state it clearly again, the main goal is to have equal representation…got it? Also let me add that there are studies in Nepal that have shown a close correlation between economic backwardness and excluded communities. Why don’t you ask yourself why there is this close correlation? Ethnic based reservation is a necessity but at the same time it does not mean that one cannot implement social changes in parallel that works to alleviate economic standards of poor people who may not be part of any ethnic group. You need to understand that ethnic/caste based problems are much broader than economic problem that you are backing. Quota based on economic backwardness is a much narrower solution which fails to tackle the problem of proportional representation.

    “On your statement is that ‘All dalits and janjatis are united’ does not hold any ground. I am involved with these communities for almost a decade and I am based in rural Nepal.”

    – I don’t know what you have been doing for a decade, but after working with these communities for this long I cannot believe you still have not fathom their problem. Either you are ignorant or just incompetent. All dalits and janjatis are united on their political agenda because at the very top and most visible/basic level, they all are facing a similar discrimination from upper cast folks like you.

    As for the problem faced by women, the less you say the better because you have no idea what you are talking about. BTW, no one is ignoring the plight of women, in fact they are one of the most discriminated group in Nepal. And again I will say reservation policy is a must here as well…the question again is how to implement it in a sound way. On topical level lets not try to digress ok!

  3. Nopatriot-don’t be a dumbo. Womens issues are very important but stick to the present topic about communal politics-I don’t like this clever diversion tactics of yours.

  4. Quota is not the end solution but can be the starting point or can brings eagerness. Because of eagerness Chhetri/Gurung/Rai/Limbu/ became warriors, Brahmin concerntrated more on education, Newars on businesses, in our history. To change it, all should be given the equal opportunities either pushing them or encouraging them by the state. Because of the command in Nepali language and their unity, brahmins are getting more opportunities in beuraucracy and politics even after Janaandolan-2. So this system needs to be changed either by quota or by changing the procedure of exams or introducing federal system. Even the word of decentralisation became failed in Nepal although it was good step.

    Even in India, Nepali origin very hardly get the chance to hold the good post and that is why they are demanding for the seperate state. So discriminition still there in India specially in northern eastern part.

  5. NoPolitics – Your contention that “ethnicity based quota is not a good idea and economic status based is better” is like I mentioned earlier plain dumb and stupid. It only sounds good but impractical. Man you’ve only politicised it by accusing me “If you would see politics in this, then I am truly sad.”

    I tell you why you are making a fool out of yourself (and thanks Ironic – you said exactly whts on my mind, I’d like to elaborate nevertheless).

    Quota based on economic status wont work in Nepal because:
    1. It does not provide Janjatis/Dalits constitutional guarantee on anything. You think most of the govt officials (comprising mostly your type) and responsible for deciding whos eligible/whos not on basis of eco status will ever approve us? Bull Shit. You hypocrites will only use this new machinery to further your own people.
    2. Like Ironic said theres a lot of correlation between economic bckdness and ethnicity and while Quotas must be there, we need parallel programs to adress economic bckward people, not ignore it.
    3. And your offer will not restrain the fiery unrest within us at all. Its vague and fraught with many many cracks which you only will get to exploit – unless theres a constitutional guarantee – on both quota and autonomy.

    And stop talking crap that Quotas dont. Moreover stop imagining we are getting communual and hypothetical. I think you should stop posting anything on this thread at all. Hmmm, on second thoughts, please dont stop. By bashing your stupidity, I am getting a chance to sensitize our cause even more.

    Jai Quota, Jai Autonomy!

  6. Quotas put the least skilled in positions of importance. Leaders of society should be selected for their integrity, knowledge, skills and qualifications and no other reason. Quotas have proven disastrous everywhere they have been tried. America is a notorious example.

  7. Bideshi – are you just making a generic statement or do you have any clue what we are discussing?

    Your hollow idealistic commments like the above with no context to our country’s problems only means either you have no valid argument, you are not listening or you have acceded defeat.

  8. quota system is a no no………. i dont want quota or arkchyan….. i want what is mine. simple as that.

  9. We’ve been stymied by “aphno manche” for centuries. Let’s don’t replace that with quotas which are already a proven failure elsewhere. Why can’t people accept the idea that positions of responsibility should go to responsible, capable people regardless of their family ties or tribe or religion? Is it not obvious that a light bulb should go in a light socket and not a banana?

  10. those against a quota system in a mutli-ethnic country like Nepal where most of the ethnicities except bahun/chettris have faced centuries of discrimination don’t know what they are talking about. like many have stated it is not a perfect system and should not be looked upon as a long term solution. it should be looked upon as a short term solution which is needed to negate the problems faced now. like I said a leg up until the playing field is leveled for this marginalised communities.

    do you guys who are against a quota system even know what a ‘level playing field’ is? is there a level playing field for all communities in Nepal? think about it. if you cannot accept this idea or comprehend the meaning of a level playing field then it’s better you shut up.

  11. Hey UWB! you’ve changed your format but you’re still stuck with the redundant wordpress!

  12. Kirat, I’ve seen the “level playing field” of America put totaly incompetent people in responsible positions with disastrous results. Just like “aphno manche” has done here for so long. Do you want a carpetbagger era here in Nepal? Don’t urge going from one extreme to the other. I am not Bahun or Newari and have no tribal loyalties at all. I want the best people serving in leadership positions whether they are Lepcha or Limbu, Magar or Gurung, Tharu or Chetri, Newar or even bideshi. Just so they can lead and have integrity and loyalty to Nepal first and not their own selfish interests.

  13. Uhh, as far as carpetbaggers are concerned they were mostly white vultures, OK? Please don’t blame blacks for destroying your southern comforts(built on slavery), OK? You are neither bahun/chettri or any of the discriminated tribes in Nepal…that’s why you have no inkling of the problem that we are talking about.

    And excuse me but why are you so thick headed? How can you get the best of anyone when the playing field is not level? How can there be a meritocracy when one community is so heavily favoured?

  14. Bideshi – like Kirat said its not a perfect system and we all agree what you propose is correct, except its too bad that we have bigger problems right now in hand and Quota is one of the immediate way to styme that.

    This Janandolan has put powers back to the people. In this context people means Bahuns/Chettris/Ranas/Shahs etc who are already in great positions can can exploit the power much more and leave most of us Janjatis/Dalits etc with peanuts, whereas we fought most to get this power back from the King. So you see your idea may sound ideal but its imperfect, esp when there is grave danger of an all out ethnic war in Nepal. We are all in a wait-and watch mode you see. We sacrificed blood more than Bahuns/Chettris and all other priviledged classes and if post this andolan we reamin at status quo you need to understand there will be nothing but WAR. And you will not have the Nepal we have today.

    So before you make your argument, please consider the context, the backgroud and an intelligent assessment of the situation in our country.

  15. We did not fight this revolution to take away the power from the King and put it back to priviledged classes. We fought for our rights and some people here should be grateful we gave more blood than them to save their asses.

    Please dont give us a raw deal now. This revolution has woken us enough. We are a simmering volcano you see and we are only asking what truly is ours. Feel free to let me know if we are being unreasonable.

  16. Bidhesi,

    Somehow I get the feeling that Bidhesi = No politics, they both have a very similar style of writing.

    “Kirat, I’ve seen the “level playing field” of America put totaly incompetent people in responsible positions with disastrous results. Just like “aphno manche” has done here for so long. Do you want a carpetbagger era here in Nepal?”

    – First of all you don’t have a data to prove that AA had disastrous impact in America. When I say data, it has to be consistent and statistically generated, not an isolated case of someone you met. So your statement is hallow at best.
    – Second you are absolutely correct about aphno manche, finally you have written some truth. More than 90% of public and political sector is/has been dominated by one particular group bahun/chettris who happens to be only 30% of the total population. For generations they have been using quota system implicitly (the only difference is that this quota system is not in official form). To stop this from happening further, you need to have an explicit quota based on ethnic lines till a parity in both public and political sector is reached. Once the level playing field is even, we will then see a more fair selection process as a result of diversity.

    As it stands now, we have bananas going into light bulb socket much of the time (perhaps the lack of vision demonstrated by major political parties after 1990 is a testament of this?). Even the formation of the constitution in 1990 was completely hijacked by the implicit use of quota system (3 people all of them bahuns) and look where it led to.

    Jai Limbuwan (I am beginning to like this slogan)

  17. yeah jai limbuwan n janjati revolution. we all r with u folks. not only about gov n other representation but also about our free n independent cultural, religious, linguistic n traditional practices without hindubad n bahunbad suppression. why do we need public holiday in jania purnima for which we hav no meaning at all, even in dasain why do we need so long holiday, historically we were forced to celebrate it violently, they would slain any limbu who wouldn’t celebrate it. and when we hav our own great festivals n traditions to celebrate. as a respect we sure participate in hindu n other religious ceremonies, religious harmony being one of our traits. n wat a surprise ex gurkhas will be mobilized for arms management prior to UN’s people arrival who has always been ignored n neglected by the gov but labelled as bhada ko sena n source of ‘chiya khane paisa’ to all those blood sucker offcial from TIA till they reach thier home, becasue they come from janjati ethnic background. given the chance they all r ready to pour out thier skills, knowledge n expertise that is of world class for the welfare of country n its people. due to the govs crap policy many r bound to fly abroad n settle, sad.

    long live janjati revolution.

  18. Let us not divide the nation on the basis of ethnicity and caste….provide education for all and let merit prevail..

  19. shantikumar, that’s the sort of general-sweep the dirt under the carpet-statement I loathe.

  20. Dear Shantikumar,

    The supposed division of the nation is because there are many who have not got what they deserve and some everything though they don’t deserve, the country is already divided you know it, 90 to you not even 10 to others , ethnicity and caste is real it is not imaginary, because many things, discrimination, favouritism happens because of that, so these things are to be considered, given consideration while decisions are made. About merit, you don’t let an illiterate and emacipated to compete to one well fed literate, with good connections and backings and with a thread around the body that grants privileges, you understand that. Now the only way the things can be settled is taking things in isues of caste, ethnicity of course in terms of economic standards too, so actions must be taken, perhaps you don’t these things to happen because you believe you are entitled to everything and others should rot that psyche is not found just in you they are many and they need to be convinced, the problem is they feign they don’t understand, they choose not to understand. The nation is a concept, it is a system, and if it does not do justice to all, does not fulfill the needs, inspiration of all, what use is it?

    Jai Babasaheb Bhim Rao Ambedkar!

  21. Let’s pretend for the sake of discussion that we are agreed on a direction for the future of Nepal. How do we influence the implementation of our plans? The only united organization is the Maoist Army. They have their own plans which are different from ANY of ours. The useless political parties may as well not exist. The king is powerless. The army is without direction and popular support. Can any of our plans come to anything at all? The Maoists have all the cards and they aren’t going to listen to us or anyone else. Only the Nepal Army can influence things and they are sitting behind their walls playing cards.

  22. Ambedkar had converted into Buddhism so that there is no longer caste based discrimination. By converting into Buddhism, he was no longer Dalit because Buddhism does not have Dalit or Brahmins.

  23. The same would happen with “conversion” to Christianity or Islam, but does that really solve anything?

  24. Bisdeshi – can you elaborate what u jus said? coz i cudnt relate it with the context of the topic under discussion ..

  25. The Dalit is an identity that is for all the oppressed, Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar accepted Buddha Dhamma and he is the chief person who revived Buddhism in India. He is a dalit because he was born from a womb of a dalit mother and suckled the breasts of a dalit mother, you see that. He is a Dalit Messiah, what he did for the Janjatis(ST), SC’s in India , they communities would always remain indebted to him. Caste is Varna is colour, colour is akin to race, race is ethnicity, the Dalits are a nation in themselves, there is a distinct, who is emerging today, suppressed and oppressed for centuries, their voices are being heard today. So, the Dalits shall rise and shall conquer. Dear Shaman, I know quite a deal of Mumbo-Jumbos, Fupshangla La da tilay danshai iti. Just add something usefull, like to hear your views too.
    Jai Bhim!

  26. PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION

    Proportional Representation that has been agreed upon would prove against the interests of the Marginalized Communities killing the very objective for which the representation system, proportional system, was thought of in the first place, which is ensuring that marginalized communities get representation and the voice in the House and so in the framing of the laws. The reason is this Proportional Representation is of such a nature that the politicians who are least interested in the welfare of the oppressed are getting power to choose the representatives for the oppressed. And also there is no such commitment or explicit understanding, a clear agreement that the chosen or nominated members would be from the oppressed communities, Dalits, Janjatis, Madhesis, Muslims, etc.

    The understanding being, that even intellectuals or experts in different matters too would be accommodated in the quota of nominated seats. The Proportional Representation would have served its purpose had the power to represent the members of the oppressed communities were to be decided by the organisations belonging to the different oppressed organisations and by not the political parties and had there had been clearly stated or allocated numbers of seats to be filled by the different communities, which would be filled in any case, ensuring there are representatives of the communities in any condition.

    This Proportional Representation that has been agreed upon so to say has given enough or large powers to the parties to use its strength to stifle those who would try to bring changes and fight for the oppressed nationalities (Dalits), because they are getting enough seats, i.e. a seat for every seat won, to be filled according to their likes which would be used to overtly or covertly jeopardise any agreement, law that would ensure that the true voices are heard in the Assembly, that the true representatives of the masses would be able to raise their voices, demands in the Assembly.

    Some of the Consequences or rather the core points of this ‘Proportional System’ are as follows-

    1) The nominated representatives would lack Authority and Independence, their first priority and the only priority would be to listen to the masters by whose grace they got the seat and to tow the line of the party in every case.

    2) The nominated representatives would not be true representatives of the communities and the masters would ensure that ‘useless louts’ loyal to the masters are nominated for the seats.

    3) The genuine community leaders would be forced to approach those parties that are avowedly anti-dalit to get nominated to the Assembly, which would be an understanding of ‘quid pro quo’, the dalits would be forced to back those anti-dalit elements which they seek to show the door, in order to get the representatives nominated in the house.

    4) The issue of representation would be used to create frictions in the Dalit fraternity over the number of members to be nominated in the Assembly, would use the policy of playing one community against another to the hilt.

    5) Every step would be taken to ensure that the Dalits, Janjatis and other oppressed communities do not come together united to fight for the rights, which would be ensured by the choice of nominees, candidates for the nominated seats.

    6) An impression would be sought to be created that the dalits are being given their due by parading the nominated idiots before the dalit and marginalized communities and for every failure of the parties to get justice for the Dalits, marginalized communities the blame would be put on the nominated idiots, to their lack of competency.

    7) The most the nominated member can do is resign if he feels that the issues of dalits are not taken favourably, that would not bother the masters because the member is a nominated member, so lacking legitimacy in real sense.

    8) In reality this Proportional Representation is not for the representation of all communities, but for the Parties to ensure that they get authority to fulfil their objectives by filling seats by their ‘own people’ and to ward off the threat from the real representatives of the different communities.

    9) This Proportional Representation can be made to work if there are reserved constituencies for the Dalits, Janjatis and other marginalized communities, which is not the case.

    10) All the parties those opposed to reservation, positive discrimination measures and other welfare measures meant for the upliftment of the oppressed would come together eventually in the house (most probably coz can’t afford to come together while seeking votes), after getting the votes of the dalits to see that the oppressed do not get any special consideration.

    The oppressed can do a lot by coming together and doing their best to send candidates hailing from the oppressed candidates, he is a moron, who thinks that this election is being fought on just Party ideology, this election is for the oppressed people to get their community men in the house so that they speak for the community and the constitution guarantees rights for the community (dalits); what counts is how many members are there from each oppressed community in the house to speak for the community, so party loyalty, imbeciles would keep it.

    Some steps the oppressed communities can take are as follows-

    1) Ensure that every face in the Assembly is a new face, old timers should not be elected and think twice in selecting old candidate, in a rarest case, old timer should be chosen.

    2) Putting up independent candidates every where, chosen by consensus among the oppressed communities, sending enough independent candidates, who can group together once in the Assembly.

    3) Questioning those seeking vote of dalits on what they have done for the oppressed while they were in power, stressing on what they did and not on their promises of what they would do in the constituent Assembly and in future…..in future.

    4) Not backing candidate belonging to oppressed candidates fielded by the 7 parties and other parties, coz, electing him means electing a lout in first case and another electing an anti-dalit through nomination.

    5) Maoists can be given a try, backing in places they are strong with the belief that they mean what they say and would not betray, that would be clear in their list of candidates contesting the election.

    6) Supporting issues of one dalit community by other dalit communities, like in matters like Regional Autonomy, reciprocity being there including good faith and trust.

    7) No compromises in the cases matters pertaining to the upliftment and empowerment of the dalits ,oppressed communities, pani chalney, na-chalney, masiney and na masiney shudras and minorities.

    8) Nothing to be left to be settled later on like has been in the case, of rejecting monarchy or accepting Ceremonial Monarchy. No dithering, matters settled once and for all during the Constituent Assembly proceedings.

    9) Fundamental things necessary for the upliftment of the oppressed to be guaranteed by the constitution, including reservations.

    10) Unity of the Dalits, janjatis, minorities and all those oppressed and those who believe the values of Equality, Justice, Liberty, and Opportunities for all.

    So, I felt these things and so I wrote, that’s what I did.
    Jai Bhim, Jai Babasaheb Bhim Rao Ambedkar!

    p.s. these are my views, would be glad to change rectify anything that I have said if anybody comes with good informations and believable, true facts.

  27. In an “ideal” democracy, representatives would be drawn by lot and required to serve for a fixed term and then return to their original occupation. In this way special interests could not fix elections and “buy” political power. A Phd or a herdsman might just as easily be selected. Honestly, could such a system give us worse “representatives” than what we have?

  28. Bideshi – you have made quite a few comments in this thread but none satisfactory. Can you please stop beating around the bush and give a straight clear cut view on how you think we can possibly stop this simmering jatiya unrest. Please try and keep the reality of the situation in perspective while doing so. Coz for me you represent a typical protectionist (which I understand is human) but I am yet to hear an intellectual rebuttal from you.

  29. Yes, there should be regional autonomy and decentralisation. However dividing the country into autonomous regions on the basis of ethnicity and communal ideologies is not good. People from every community have settled everywhere in Nepal. If we look at the current state, no community is in majority in any specific area of Nepal. So trying to establish ethnic autonomy on the basis of etnic makeup that was there 300 years back is not plausible. Be it Newars, Bahuns, Chhetris or Madhesis; people of each and every community have settled everywhere.

    Besides, there are 101 identified ethnic communities in Nepal. So if someone speaks about creating a Limbuwan state in those 9 districts, then why not a state for Lepchas, Dhimaals, Rajbanshis, Jhaangads, Majhis, Purbeli Thaarus, Santhaals, Bankariyaas and Sattars ? I think these ethnic groups are also the real inhabitants of the same areas which the Limbuwans are claiming.

    If only 8 – 9 ethnically autonomous states are made on the basis of the few ethnic communities which are shouting out loud, then what about the remaining 90+ communities ?

    If Newa autonomous state including the Kathmandu valley is established, then does it mean that only Newars will have the right to stay in Kathmandu ? And what if other ethnic groups residing currently in the valley are chased out of Kathmandu to their respective autonomous states ? For example, Limbus being chased to Taplejung and Rais to Khotang / Okhaldhunga ? Can any supporter of the Limbuwan or any other mukti morchas imagine what it would be like ?

  30. OK Patriot, you have found me out, I’m not an intellectual nor do I wish to be one. If going straight to the point is going to do any good here goes: Nepal is not ready for self-government. The best we can hope for is a “Mussharef” or “Tito” to restore order, lock up the corrupt and save the country from self destruction, ethnic and religious war. Now, what’s YOUR solution (and please spare us “intellectual ” sophistries)?

  31. dev bro u hav no idea how auontomous region functions, u gotta read more bro. there r many logical reasons behind this, cultural, religious, traditional, historical, linguistic, etc which gives our true identity n our dignity. its not about race discrimination but self rights. no ne is asking for seperate indipendent nation. there will never be ethnic violence in nepal, it would hav been many years ago if janjatis had really wanted it to b. read the history bro, tamang, gurung, magar, rai, limbu everyone had revolted n were extremist, chased away n killed many khas people. its only about RIGHTS, current system n situaion n constitution can never give us. thats why janjatis r still in revolution as united….

  32. There has been a few mistakes, small mistakes, I make a lot, don’t have the command over the lang, so in the above posts in one place it has been emaciapited, it should be emaciated and inspiration should be aspiration, and in one place ‘drank’ should replace ‘suckled’. I get overexcited , when the topic concerns Dalits , and so end up at times mistakes, making big mistakes.
    Buddhist as Shaman says have no caste, he is not a Buddhist who believes in caste and adheres to the Brahmanist customs and traditions, that’s this simple. The Dalit is the term that has been coined by the Dalits, it is not that old and so, the dalits decide what is meant by dalits and who are dalits. The definition of dalits gives that those oppressed by the Brahmanical system are dalits. Dalits are against Brahmanism, Dalitism is the opposite of Brahmanism, it is there to destroy Brahmanism and the hegemony of the Brahmins. Dalits don’t believe in any institution made by the Brahmanists and seeks to destroy the Brahmanist customs, traditions,etc that are there, started and made by the Brahmanists and Brahmins to enslave, incapacitate the huge humanity,( Dalits). Dalits do not believe in the caste system, it strives to annihilate caste system, Dr. Ambedkar has told that the caste system and hinduism cannot do good to the dalits, because the very purpose these systems were conceived and used is to deny rights to the dalits, to oppress them, to make them slaves, so these philosophies, concepts can never do good to the dalits, the dalits should discard them. Dait the term is a concept philosophy(dalitism), like Brahmanism, democracy and so many others, the dalit term has been coined by the dalits, dalitism is the philosophy of the dalits, it is not something made by the Brahmanists and the Brahmin priests and so they have no say in the theoretical, conceptual, philosophical issues of ‘Dalitism’, and dalit. In olden days in the time of the Tathagatha Buddha there was Brahmana and Sramana, then there was also Arya and Anarya, there was Varna and Avarna and in recent in Nepal we had, and have the Tagadhari and the Matwali, these terms of distinction was creation of the Brahmins but the term dalit, dalitism is of the dalits, the opposite of Dalitism is Brahmanism. The oppressed especially the so called low castes are called the Dalits, and they are so but all those that have suffered under brahmanism are also dalits, the first dalit leader Mahatma Jyotiba Phule belongs to the OBC community of today the important leader Chaggan Bhujbal of Maharastra today hails from that community, Rajashri Shahuji Maharaj a Maratha raja is also considered a Dalit icon, then there are many others including prof Kancha Illiah, a great dalit scholar hails from a backward classes there are many to say, but the core strength of the Dalits are the lower castes, they deserve to lead the movement. so, the point i wished to make is that the term dalits must include the other oppressed who are reluctant till now in Nepal to join the dalits. The great dalit leaders like Paswan, Kansi Ram, U.Raj, Kawade, Athawale, M. Kumari,and many from the south are from the so called lower castes, they lead the movement. The dalits must necessarily be led by the dalits, the destiny of the dalits must be in the hands of the dalits. So there must be unity, otherwise all oppressed communities would suffer. These things, I wrote because there was a need to say something about Dalits, I think many deserved to know this.
    Jai Bhim, Jai Babasaheb Bhim Rao Ambedkar.

  33. limbuwan bro, i know how autonomous regions function. I know that creating autonomous region doesn’t mean creating a seperate country. But just by observing the way in which the limbuwan, khambuwan, madhesh, newa etc. mukti morchas are going, one can definitely forsee how these so called autonomous regions are going to function. These are not going to be anything like the Tibet autonomous region. They are going to function like the states in India. Remember what happened to many Nepalese after creation of the ‘Meghalaya’ state for the ‘Khasi’ community ?

    The way in which these mukti morchas are protesting, is itself very alarming. The cadres of the Madhesh Mukti morcha kidnapped 2 Sherpa guys working in a local government office in ‘Madhesh’ just a few days back. And they were released after a few days, but only after they agreed to the following conditions: –

    1. they should resign from their posts immediately.
    2. they’ll leave madhesh, will go back to sherpa areas and will never ever return back again.

    The same morcha has banned people of the non – madhesi origin from operating any vehicles in the interiors of Siraha and Saptari districts. Well this is just the beginning, but these do provide a glimpse of the days to come.

    And I think u have not read my last posting properly. I’ve clearly said that there should be autonomous regions in Nepal, but these should not be on the basis of ethnicity or religion or similar issues. There are more than 100 janajaatis in Nepal. So if a limbuwan autonomous region is formed with the aforementioned 9 districts, and if only the limbu culture is promoted and given priority in that region; won’t this be similar to what the ‘khas’ community are doing to other janajaatis now ? I think the ‘Limbu’ community will be doing the same kind of acts against other ethnic groups like the Lepchas, Dhimaals, Rajbanshis, Jhaangads, Majhis, Purbeli Thaarus, Santhaals, Bankariyaas and Sattars, who are residing in that region but are in a minority. A Sattar staying in the ‘Limbuwan’ autonomous region may be compelled to study the Limbu language and learn the Limbu culture. The smaller and more backward ethnic groups will again be marginalised. Can you guarantee that this is not going to happen?

    Thus, I totally disagree with the view of creating ethnic autonomous regions. But I fully support the idea of creating autonomous regions on the basis of just plain geography or climate. I think, this way, it won’t be discriminatory against anyone. Creating a ‘Karnali’ autonomous state is far far better than creating a ‘Limbuwan’ or ‘Khambuwan’ or ‘Newa’ autonomous state. At least we know that we are not sowing the seeds of yet another series of ethnic hatred and discrmination.

  34. Dev,

    I think you are completely misguided on what it means to have autonomy based on ethnic lines. I find many of your claims similar to the arguments made by bahuns who fail to see the real picture evolving in fear that they will lose the privilege they have had for so long. In short you folks just want to maintain the status quo of brahamin domination.

    “However dividing the country into autonomous regions on the basis of ethnicity and communal ideologies is not good. People from every community have settled everywhere in Nepal.”

    – First of all, the movement of people still have not resulted in completely heterogeneous regions as you imply. There are still large sections of certain ethnics groups concentrated in certain local areas. Limbus being an example.
    – Secondly, people may have become more mobile (actually more centralized to Kathmandu) in search for opportunities but when it comes to who gets to vote from which location, that is a different story. For example, I live in Kathmandu, but my permanent residence is in Phidim, if you want to go by official records.

    “If only 8 – 9 ethnically autonomous states are made on the basis of the few ethnic communities which are shouting out loud, then what about the remaining 90+ communities ?”

    – Yes, what about 90+ communities? Since we are ushering on truly becoming democratic country of which you I believe are a strong supporter, then we must value liberty and individual rights as the basic foundations of such a state correct? Which means that every voice must be heard and taken into consideration. This implies that the formation of autonomous states should be at fundamental level a right of every citizen and therefore a group (if they choose to be organized). That means a right to “self-determination” must be given for every group which includes 90+ communities in a true democratic fashion. That is what we are trying to do in CA as well aren’t we? Doing anything less would mean that you are taking away basic rights that democracy ought to guarantee. The more appropriate question you ought to be asking is whether all the 90+ communities will ask for autonomy? Does it work for their interest or against their interest. Keep in mind that asking for autonomy also implies that you are limiting your rights to resources of other similar autonomous regions. So for a smaller group, who do not reach a critical mass it will work against their interest and that is also part of the reason why you do not hear them talking about it as much.

    “So if a limbuwan autonomous region is formed with the aforementioned 9 districts, and if only the limbu culture is promoted and given priority in that region; won’t this be similar to what the ‘khas’ community are doing to other janajaatis now ? I think the ‘Limbu’ community will be doing the same kind of acts against other ethnic groups like the Lepchas, Dhimaals, Rajbanshis, Jhaangads, Majhis, Purbeli Thaarus, Santhaals, Bankariyaas and Sattars, who are residing in that region but are in a minority. A Sattar staying in the ‘Limbuwan’ autonomous region may be compelled to study the Limbu language and learn the Limbu culture. The smaller and more backward ethnic groups will again be marginalised. Can you guarantee that this is not going to happen?”

    – This is completely false statement. You need to think a little bit deeper into this and study carefully the examples of countries that have autonomy on cultural/ethnic lines. You need to recognize that autonomy does not operate as a separate nation, you seem to be confused on how autonomy works although you sort of know the definition of it. An autonomy is at best a subset of a nation/country. What this basically means is that all the basic laws that guarantees individual rights and freedom are applied the same in all the regions. The implication is that no one will be forced to learn or use Limbu language in Limbuwan. Autonomy only gives the privilege to Limbus to promote their culture within their community but not force it on others (if you read between the lines, it meas autonomy on ethnic lines does not compromise the rights of others). Don’t confuse this with what Khas did, they have historically forced a their culture on everyone.
    – As for the small ethnic groups, they actually have a better chance of being less marginalized in autonomic regions as oppose to a much bigger playing field at national level. They can form sub-autonomy within an autonomy and exert more influence.
    – Not having an ethnic based autonomy will be like putting gasoline in fire. There will be a bigger price to pay, especially for bahuns if ethnic war does ever erupt.

    “They are going to function like the states in India. Remember what happened to many Nepalese after creation of the ‘Meghalaya’ state for the ‘Khasi’ community ?”

    – FYI, if you don’t know history well, India was initially divided into geographical regions just like you purposed. Because that did not work and there was a threat of communal violence, they were divided into ethnic regions. A lot of studies have given credit to this vision as being the sole reason for communal harmony that exist in India today. This is not to say that there are/were some minor problems. The movement in Gorkhaland and the the insurgency Northeaster corridors were precisely because they were not give autonomy or anything close to that. And I suppose you can guess what the response were from the Indian government right? If not refresh your history.

    Jai Limbuwan!

  35. Sasanka,

    Many thanks for taking pains to write few things about Dalits and thereby educating us all bit more. I personally feel that hurdles and discrimination faced by Dalits are much more enormous compared to any other community in Nepal. These upper caste “bahuns” with their fancy parties to go with are sidelining the core issues faced by majority of the people in this country. They are distracting everyone with the talk of monarchy only, which at this point already is a forgone conclusion. At this juncture in history, there is a greater need for Dalits, Janjatis, Madheshis etc, to be heard in unison against the oppressive culture of bahunbad that has crippled/enslaved the nation for ages. The hegemony must be broken with whatever means. Even if it means fighting for it!

  36. Ah, the same politicians/people who stoked the communal fires are now going to be consumed by it. Look at what’s happening in the Tarai belt-it’s Madhesi vs Pahadi right now. What a shame!

  37. Communal violence has erupted in Nepalgunj between so called Madhesis and Pahadi’s-the govt. must come down on this with utmost seriousness. Law and order must be maintained.

  38. The situation in Nepalgunj is tense. It’s under an indefinite curfew. My uncle’s family who lives there, were apprehensive on phone. People from the ‘Madhesi’ community have been looting the households of ‘Pahade’ community despite curfew. Many of their properties and vehicles were put on fire. A jewellery shop in their neighbourhood belonging to the ‘Pahade’ community was looted in broad daylight during the curfew itself.

    The communal harmony which was there will be history soon. Limbuwan and Ironic, where are you? What do you make out of this ? Do you want this to happen to you in Kathmandu ? Should you be told to leave your property in Kathmandu, pack your bags and go to Taplejung ?

    The ethnic autonomy which you are telling, is a good concept. But will it work in a country like Nepal with so much diversity ? Not one or two but nearly hundred ethnic groups are there. Why can’t we be just Nepalese with equal rights for everyone instead of being divided into Newars, Limbus, Rais, Khas or Madhesis ?? Can’t we have autonomous regions on the basis of just geography, where every Nepalese has equal rights without any discrimination ?

    This was the only thing which I was trying to convey. But I think that my efforts have been useles.

  39. Dev,

    You just don’t get it do you? The end to such violence is AUTONOMY on ETHNIC lines. How many times do I have to repeat this to you? The harmony that you are talking about in the past was due to oppression by the then monarchy. In democracy you need to make sure everyone is give their due rights. If not then you have to take the path of suppression which is against a democratic movement (this of course is not going to work in the long run, people will oppose and trust me what you are seeing now will look small by then). This flare of this communal violence is all about the present government not recognizing the Madhesi’s rights for inclusion and autonomy. You are talking complete BS when you talk about autonomous regions based on geography, which is not much different than the centralized structure we had post 1990. Contrary to what folks like you think, autonomy on ethnic lines is the only solution that brings balance and equality to the table. The problem is that guys like you who are against autonomy on ethnic lines just don’t have a complete grasp of this concept and are farting nonsense out of your arse. If you don’t want this to happen, make sure to advocate AUTONOMY on ETHNIC lines or else Pahade bahun’s are going to be the first victim of this inferno along with everyone. Everyone is telling the government to take action, but nobody seems to tell them exactly what action to take and to many folks talking about autonomy on ethnic lines is resounding NO, because they just don’t get it! We have India right next door as a great example of communal harmony and yet people just keep their eyes and ears closed, like you Dev. Open up your mind a little bit and think more creatively. And, please read my previous comments carefully and try to understand the concepts of autonomy on ethnic lines…don’t read it for sake of reading it.

  40. u still don’t understand dev bro, look at the effects of not addressing that problem. this recent situations were not created becasue of demand for autonomous regions. it was created because of present crap interim constitution that is still controversy n contradicting. its not only about gov representation but also about thier culture, religioin, traditions, language which gives them distinct identity. it will grow more bro, n the worst victims will be people from bahun community, if this problems r ignored as many people says, no jat pat stuff, make only one caste, n all craps. n this is 200 plus more years old problem of nepal, the reason for it to reach the climax at present time is due to betrayal from maoist n gov as always but now everyone is aware, its unstoppable now….

  41. Autonomy on ethnic lines will result in what happened to Yugoslavia after Tito. Which ethnic autonomous region can prosper by itself? The economicaly backward regions will become permanently so. The more developed regions will continue to develop (unless the Maoists control Nepal) and will have no reason to be concerned about the other autonomous regions. Under Tito Yugoslavia was peaceful (or else…) and when he died the country divided into ethnic regions and civil wars began immediately with hundreds of thousands killed. A united Nepal is weak enough already; a divided Nepal will no longer be Nepal at all but a chaotic region of warring ethnic rivalries.

  42. Huh? The ethnic war erupted when Serbs revoked the autonomy from Albanian in Kosovo. What the hell are you talking about? You want the great Prithivi Narayan reincarnated, don’t you? :p

  43. ok Ironic ji, continue your fight for ethnic autonomy so that Nepal becomes divided into more than 100 ethnically autonomous city sized states with constant inter-community scuffles and fights like in Afganistan.

    Personally I am not in favour of such states. I am neither a bahun nor a chhetri. I’m a newar which is a janajaati, but still I do believe in harmony between ethnic groups and I identify myself as a Nepali first. But if Nepal goes on the way of ethnically autonomous states, then I’ll see to it that people like you are sent out of Kathmandu (Newa autonomous state) to your respective ethnic region.

  44. Yeah Dev When and if there does come a time to decided (i.e self-determination for autonomy) make sure to advocate against it (you might piss many of your newari folks, but hey that is your choice and your right).

    “I’m a newar which is a janajaati, but still I do believe in harmony between ethnic groups and I identify myself as a Nepali first.”

    – Good for you! Yeah, I am sure all the “indians” you have met must have told you that they are a Tamil, Gujju, Bengali…etc… in fact I am sure you have not even met an Indian!

    “But if Nepal goes on the way of ethnically autonomous states, then I’ll see to it that people like you are sent out of Kathmandu (Newa autonomous state) to your respective ethnic region”

    – So much for a person who wanted a communal harmony! You have shit in your head instead of brains, but then I am not surprised at all, you are a chauvinistic pahade bahun masquerading to be a Newar. Filthy pig, its people like you who have tarnished the reputation of bahuns!

  45. Dear Sasanka,

    ” The Dalit is the term that has been coined by the Dalits, it is not that old and so, the dalits decide what is meant by dalits and who are dalits. The definition of dalits gives that those oppressed by the Brahmanical system are dalits.”

    This argument is circular.

    Dalits define who is Dalit, but unless you define who is a Dalit first, how can that Dalit (who in the absence of definition is not yet a Dalit) define who is a Dalit?

    The fact is who is a Dalit and who is not in a real sense is defined by Hindu tradition. Everyone who is not in the category traditionally called “chhandala” in India does not identify as Dalit (even the Indian government in its statistics has a seperate Dalit category and this is how the term is always used).

    ” Dalits don’t believe in any institution made by the Brahmanists and seeks to destroy the Brahmanist customs, traditions,etc that are there, started and made by the Brahmanists and Brahmins to enslave, incapacitate the huge humanity,( Dalits).”

    Right, so you want an erradication of Hinduism (this is Ambedkar’s position also). Hinduism is a plague created for opressing people and has to be exterminated – Indian Dalit groups clearly say this and you have also said so. And as you know, Ambedkar clearly equates Hinduism and “Brahminism.”

    Imagine a Hindu said the same thing about Buddhism in Nepal! If a Hindu said that “Buddhism is a plague and all its cultures and traditions have to be erradicated.” Would that be considered an acceptable thing to say by anyone? Why the double-standard? Why is it acceptable to say anything about Hinduism?

    I am shocked that you have so little sensitivity that you can tell people directly that their religion and way of life is demonically cruel and has to be fought against till the end…

    Sorry if I get angry, but this is justifiable very sensitive issue for anyone who actually considers what you say –

  46. Rishi,

    Any religion that defines one person superior to the other by virtue of birth has serious flaws and need to be fought against. It stands in sharp contrast to liberty, freedom and equality. Anything less than demonic is generous.

  47. Dev – you are getting emotionally repulsive here. Your threatening attitude of sending “people like Ironic” out of Ktm is the very thing we want to avoid when Nepal awards autonomy to deserving ethnic groups like us. Who says there wont be initial tensions when all these happens, there will be … but that will die down as opposed to denying autonomy which will threaten a biblical civil conflict. You need to be cool headed bro, coz this time autonomy will not be negotiated. Whether you want a war or not is for intelligent people like you to decide.

    And please spare us your threats for now, it shows your immaturity and moreover it misleads from the main topic.

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