Nepalis must be united to stop the jatiya yuddha that is beginning in our country
By Jiwan Limbu
From a UWB reader
“A strike called by the Limbuwan Swayatta Sarokar Manch (LSSM) on Tuesday (12 December) crippled life in nine districts east of Arun River. Today’s strike crippled life in Mechi’s Illam, Jhapa, Paanchthar, Taplejung and Koshi zone’s Dhankuta, Morang, Sunsari, Sankhuwasabha and Terhathum districts. Activists organized rallies and burnt tires on the roads, halting all traffic in the district headquarters. Organizers had called for the strike stating that the comprehensive national peace treaty between the seven-party alliance and the Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist) had ignored their demands to introduce a Limbuwan autonomous region during the elections for the constituent assembly. Limbuwan Swayatta Sarokar Manch, Sanghiya Limbuwan Rajya Parisar, Sanghiya Loktantrik Manch had jointly called for the strike.” -ekantipur news
It is time we Nepalis start talking about these issues seriously – not only concerning Limbuwans but the Sattars, Dalits and other marginalized groups. The current SPA-Maoist agreement is on very thin ice and can cave-in anytime since the whole Maoist revolution was based on many assurances to these groups e.g. autonomous status and a lot of other things. This “bandh” will trigger another and another by various groups who were promised similar things and will soon engulf the nation if a healthy discussion is not initiated. Of course, we have more critical things to solve right now, but instead of ignoring it altogether, we have chances to control it by initiating an honest and a healthy national discussion.
All responsible and educated mass must take up this challenge. We can endlessly talk about ideologies, etc etc, but we must not forget that the root cause of all our woes come from a very unequal and a disparate society and the political leaders who take advantage of it. I have strong views on this that we must make prudent efforts to bring everyone to an equal footing, introduce quota systems across all institutions including serious discussions on state restructuring (because the current set-up won’t work). This Maoist led civil war had a bona fide cause (though not necessarily the means to achieve them): that of fight against inequality, authoritarian monarchy etc. But the fight between Jatis and communities will be worse and uncontrollable that will forever psyche a nation. It will be a sectarian war, one like in Iraq between Shia, Sunni and Turks.
This time it will be a full-fledged Jatiya war. In fact it is already happening. And we must stop it.
NOW!!
Jiwan Limbu, (Patriot in UWB), is a Business Development Manager for a leading IT company in New Delhi. He is from Damak, Jhapa.
United We Blog 
Comments
145 responses to “United We Fight Against Communal War in Nepal”
This is quite serious issue and needs to be handled with extreme care. No politics because if this goes out of control, we will be destroyed completely. The only good thing about Maoist movement was that it was a political movement (yes, i am not covering up their terrorist activist). Maoists were not for seperate state or something like that. They wanted to change the system but if this secterian conflict increases, our nationality will be in danger.
I blame Maoists for this rising communal conflict in Nepal. They gave attractive slogans of autonomy based on community (Limbuwan, Magrat etc.) during their peoples’ war. They are advocating for dividing Nepal into autonomous regions that would be named after certain community. This is very bad. Yes, I support the idea of empowering communities, jana jaties and giving them due space in the governance. But to divide the country based on community is simply deplorable. The federal regions could be named after natural landmarks like rivers or mountains etc. No Bahun Zone or Tharu Zone or Limbu Zone.
Sure one can blame the Maoists-but remember they just exploited a problem that was already there. Yes I would hate communal based politics too but if one wants to avoid that then we must ensure that in the new nepal all communities get a fair say/representation in deciding the future course of this country. No use hiding from these issues, becausing closing your eyes to it won’t solve anything. A system has to be put in place where all feel a part of the ‘mainstream’ and no one is left out.
“we must ensure that in the new nepal all communities get a fair say/representation in deciding the future course of this country.”
Actually, I am keenly interested in this issue and I am horrified by the talks of Iraq style communical fighting in Nepal. I agree with commentators above and would like to ask Kirat, for what I have quoted from the comment above: How?
Quotas don’t work and are unfair for several reasons. Many candidates who are qualified for a job will be denied it in favour of someone else who is covered by a quota. Are these people, who were denied jobs just because they were not part of a quota, being treated fairly? Why should they be punished for what someone else did? It is absurd to suggest that racism and casteism are the solution to racism and casteism. You can’t remove discrimination by changing the group that is discriminated against.
Furthermore, the janjatis making use of the quotas will generally be the elite portion of janjtis (who are the only ones with appropriate opportunities). We should not think that janajatis are only persecuted by bahun/chhetri – most of the persecution of janjatis are by other janjatis. It is commonly observed whenever there is a social heirarchy, those in the middle are the ones who most strongly persecute those in the bottom. They do this to gain the respect of those at the top. Thus, the quota system is just helping one elite instead of another – it does not address the problems of the ordinary people.
Instead of quota systems and other discriminatory policies, it is neccesary to empower people through education and knowledge. This is a gradual process and taking drastic, irrational measures will only make things worse.
I also agree that the Maoist’s idea to divide the country along ethnic lines is absurd and they are irresponsibly playing with people’s emotions. In practice, such a division of the country merely paves the way for the seccesion of the tarai to India, civil war, etc…
What had supressed the freedom or civil libery of ethnic group soceity? This we must understand no matter this issues has been brought to high light by the civil war instigated by the Maoists.
The current set-up of government practice is based on the feudal oligarchic system of governace. The way Nepal has been ruled for last two and fifty years with the so called unified motto of one language, one religion, one culture and one Gorkhali way of living with Daura Suruwal and Topi under the fear of the state.
The citizens of Karnali had no rights to rule until now by themselves. But they were always ruled by the government employees appointed by the central government of Kathmandu. Therefore people in Karnali used say Gorkhali Sarkarko Raj. This sort of government practice or centrally controlled system has prevented the rest of the other ethnic societies evolved. However, there were chosen Subbas of Limbu communities by Rana and Shah regime who were the Thallu with the potatoes in the Tallu.
The chosen Limbu Subbas had the opportunity to exploit there own communities for only their own family’s welfare. However, chosen ones till now are helpless to help their own communities for the development in this current set-up.
All ethnic society must be evolved toward the modernization of human civilization. This is only posible if the civil liberty of all ethnic group of Nepal are respected and regarded in new Democratic Nepal. It is only in the Democracy the civil liberty of all ethnic group are regarded to evolve towards development and transformation to reach 21st century’s human existence or to more advance development.
The best way to resolve this issue in Democracy is from Federal System of Governance. Restructuring of the nation with the federation based on the natural resources for each constituent will balance the nation.
For example, if the Limbuwan constituent covers the natural resources that includes agriculturable lands, water resources, forestry, mines and others then in order to explore such natural resources the constituent will have to develop the scope for human resources, which is the fundamental resource for the development.
Unless the otonomous constituent does not have viable natural resources then it will be diffucult for the prosperous Limbuwan to develop. However, the population of the Limbu are now in this time spread all over Nepal from east to the west all most in over 50 districts.
It will not be possibe to keep all Libmus in one constituent but a Limbuwan constituent can be created covering certain geographical area that originates Limbuwan language, culture and social life provided that constituent has viable natural resourses to be exploited fro the development.
Such development for Limbuwan people must evolve to reach 21st century’s economic developments with international standard of education and skill for human resources so that such autonomous constituent of Nepal can respect secular democratic institutions to protect civil liberty of all Nepali people from different ethenicity and way of life.
This can be acheived from estiblishing Federal Democratic Republic of Nepal with political system of federation for the pragmatic logistics of the governance.
In a Federal Democratic system of governance the constituents of the stat are members of the union. The capital of the state will run the central government or federal government and each member states will have its own legislative, executive and judiciary bodies to administer through electoral system of appointments.
Under the constitution of the state though each constituent has to manage its business yet each constituent can legislate their won rules and regulations. These rules and regulations can be on the cultural values, functional issues, taxes and so on.
I strongly believe if the ruling elites in this current system governance and political party leadships understand the Federal System of Government in Democractic Nepal will be blessing to resolve this issue.
But all most all ruling elites and political party leaders are enclosed with their own past historical baggage of tradition that is dictorial. They thus afraid of such change. But the federal system is essential for a Democratic nation to practice complete electoral processs for prepresetations to govern the state and its constituents.
Lets us all understand the Federal System for Nepal and advocate it for our own shake with respect to the teachings of Buddha, the first and formost transformed human being who spoke then in BC with greatest logic for equality of mankind, discarded Vedic caste system —“Live together, help each other and love one another’
For this we need a system that can have legislature and government logistic for equality that can only be respected with the protection of the Civil Liberty.
“Nepalis must be united to stop the jatiya yuddha that is beginning in our country.”
I do agree with Mr. Limbu.
However, the liberation of the country from monarchy is not the ne plus ultra. We still have to attain the real democracy. So sectarian violence is uncalled for in our way to the DEMOCRACY.
For the time being, we should come up from the partisan or communal politics. Else, believe me, our story will not differ from post-Saddam Iraq.
By the way, if some party try to cash in on the situation by disrupting the communal harmony, NO EXCUSE TO THEM!
This is the right time for the Christian missionaries to jump in and utilize their century waited opportunity to convert “gullible” nepali people. The missinaries will tell Nepali people “When all Nepali people convert to Christianity, there will be no jaat nor any jaati” but they will not tell Nepali people how conservative, racist (black and white) and classist (rich and poor) the religion is. They will only destroy Nepal’s unique identity of religious harmony and tolerance.
The effect is already beginning in nepal. The Maoists/NC all leaders are sold in the hands of the missionaries and muslim mafia. They declared Nepal as secular, they are instilling animosity between Hindus and Buddists, and they are dividing Nepal so that they can devour nepal’s cultural identity.
Christian missionary among gullible Nepali people!
Why don’t someone write a story on it?
Ref Rishi’s views on Quota system, I’d offer a counterview:
I’ve experienced first hand what a quota can do when some of my brighter batchmates couldn’t make it to good colleges, while the lesser ones did (and they hardly leveraged that later). Hence, in the deep of my hearts, I have always been against this system. It’s unfair and our country could certainly use better talent in all fields.
However, in a potentially dangerous situation like this, what do you suppose we do to appease majority of the population who is threatening to go to war (potentially great for India as someone said here). You are right, mostly elites would take advantage of it. But look at the other side – the positive effect it will have on the entire community. Societies/Communities are led by intellectuals and anyone with the right intelligence will have a great chance through the quota. This will greatly restrain frustrations like it did the Dalits in India. Of course Quota is only one of the things needed.
You also said “Instead of quota systems and other discriminatory policies, it is neccesary to empower people through education and knowledge. This is a gradual process and taking drastic, irrational measures will only make things worse.”
While what you say is true, it is impractical and boringly ideal. How do you suggest we practically handle it when say we have maybe a year or two before this whole thing flares up beyond anybodys control. We can maybe have a 50 year plan after which Quotas can be retracted.
You are also right that discrimination of Janjatis happen not only through Bahun/Chettri but other Janjatis. But you need to understand the psyche of the Janjatis. For centuries Bhauns/Ranas/Shahs etc discriminated us and we have grown up only seeing it that way. We’ve been politically divided, marginalized and sold to the British (which actually worked for us but is a diff story). Rishi – Call it our short sightedness or what but theres no other way most of us see it. And the retaliation is going to be likewise.
If an educated person like me feels strongly about it, I am afraid for those millions who can be easily provoked. Thats why I say we must start an honest discussion which means making a lot of concession by the state – be it representation, autonomous state or Quotas.
I hope this strong views doesnt make other readers think I am communual. But it is a fact and we must earnestly face it. I am the last one who’d want a Jaitya war in Nepal.
Actually I take back when I say “Thats why I say we must start an honest discussion which means making a lot of concession by the state – be it representation, autonomous state or Quotas”.
Except Quotas we dont need more concessions from state. Autonomous region and fair representation in the govt. is actually something thats already ours but been denied so far.
The last thing we need to be worried about right now is what Christian missionaries are up to. We have enough problems as it is. Christians have hardly been able to make any serious dent anywhere in Hindu areas.
These insignificant problems are only going to add to the mess we already have.
In the short term the only way out is proportional representation in the election process and quota systems in educational institutions/govt. jobs. I know it’s not a perfect system and has many drawbacks but really there is no other viable alternative.
Investing in education for the marginalized communities is a great idea and must be done but it will take decades to have the desired effect. When the desire effect has take place all such quotas can be withdrawn. Can we afford to wait so long especially as their are people like Maoists and other such radical organizations waiting to take advantage of the disparity between the different communities in Nepal?
By the way the fear that the quotas will be monopolized by the elite in the communities for which the quotas are being set is utter bs. These elite will choose private schools/colleges and better paying private jobs and then what the govt. can offer-it is the same for bahuns/chettris. The elite bahuns/chettris are all studying in private schools/colleges and hold private sector jobs.
It is easy for those already in the mainstream to say ‘meritocracy’, ‘quotas are bad for people’ but try and put yourself in the shoes of some of these janjati communities. When the language you speak at home is not Nepali, when the nearest school from your village is half a days walk, when there is no precedent in your community for people completing their education and getting hold of govt. jobs, no role models as such, no guidance from the elders on such matters-is it really fair to say everyone should compete on a level field? The playing field for the marginalized communities is harshly skewered against them-is it not the society/govt’s job to first level the playing field first? Once this is achieved all quotas(basically leg ups to disadvantaged communities) can be removed.
One of the problems of democracy is that it can lead to a tyranny of the majority over the rest. If this persists and is not corrected it can lead to big problems in a multi-ethnic nation like ours. What is needed in this situation is not knee jerk reactions by all those concerned but proper well thought out policies in making our country all inclusive for all those that call our country home.
sorry for all the typos!
I agree with Kirat on this issue. I too think that we really do need some sort of a quota system especially in educational institution so as to level the educational achievements more evenly among previously marginalized ethnic groups. I think a two fold approach is needed. The quota system and an greater emphasis on education for everyone. However, like Kirat mentioned, something does need to happen so that we can accelerate the process. The private sector shouldn’t be meddled with but the education system should (sensibly of course) implement such a scheme.
It would be stupid to think that maoists (or any commies for that matter) will libarate the ethnic people out there. They are there to exploit them. just look at makune’s UML.
Now peoples are very impatient, ready to take law and order in their hand for anything and everything, even for minor issues. Road block, burning tires, stone pelting is becoming people’s culture. Thanks to maoists so-called ‘red revolution’. I feel that ethnic voilence is just around the corner, especially when feeling has been there for centuries, it is almost impossible to avoid when you are blessed with success of ‘armed revolt’.
this is no fking communal war, and the intention is never for a secterian violence. why people always use that defence when we rise for our RIGHTS. u people say, how much to tolerate?? went to war with ranas, panchayat, now maoist movements, then wat kick our arse n throw us out. this is just an anger, frustration of long long injustice. n tell u wat, almost most population of limbuwan n kirat supports this current revolt. we all r in contact with differnt groups of differnt generations young n old n ready for anything. n maoist just exploited the situation they didn’t create it. but it was there from the time nepal got united. prithvi narayn shah had allowed limbuwan autonomy, he never won limbuwan in war in his 16 n more attacks, there was kipat system in the land, mahnedra made it void. we r proud citizen of nepal, proud limbu. but the unfair, injustice done to us is intolerable now, we r just revolting for our rights n wat we deserve, no fking secterian violence n theres never been in our history, don’t compare with iraq n other who r totally different, bless us holy nature…..
Just heard in Kantipur FM that Terai Janatantrik Morcha has banned any vehicles run by the Pahade community in several highways of southern Nepal. What’s this if not the communal war? Many of the Pahade shops are closed throught the region because of the threat issued by the Morcha. We are already heading for the communal war and this is high time we start thinking seriously. Otherwise, we will be destroyed.
In general intellectuals have the responsability to guide and protect; for the sake of harmonizing and balancing I feel very strongly to help protect the defenseless, wether they have been driven to become child soldiers or adult ‘ so calles maoists’ I do not feel people understand nepalese maoism at all.
Point is people have been shot like flies and we can agree on that this must end. One step before that is to begin a process of actual working towards recontstruction of this country which is yes give jobs, medical care.
The international community withdrew and they must be told what is ok what not.
Unrealistic to dissolve the army realistic to help maoists reintegrate, give them duful respect, mourn the dissapeared, tortured and death.
In Argentina there are associations of victims of the military. Mexico will be more like Nepal one cannot say one thing.
I think we all know what we all feel and think and it is quite unfair to make just 2 or 3 leaders spokesmen. We can all moderate our opinions. thank you for this article I was becoming exceedingly upset by general journalism in the west. We must all pray for true reconciliation and help to victims of both sides. There is such a thing as institutionalized terror.
It would be good if we all could wait for the elections to the CA-perhaps it will be fairly represented for all communities and if this happens perhaps they will deliver a proper constitution/system. But the new citizenship law where women are still discriminated against shows the mindset of the old fogeys. Why can’t we break out from our old depressing shackles?
Communists fight on Marxist doctrine of classless society, proletoriat dictatorship and under Marx’s communist menifesto and so did Maoists. Marx and later communists rulers of last century never preached for linguistic and ethnic freedom but for communist internationalism. Maoists of Nepal raised the ethnic issue of Janjati. They divided the whole country to different ethnic and linguistic groups (poor Rautes could not be included there and so they came to comrade Prachand to ask for it). It is easy to poke a hornets’ nest but rather difficult to bear the consequences. Before PN Shah there did not exist a country called Nepal beyond Kathmandu valley and that too just in name. After two and half century, there hardly exists any Limbuan area except in name. Majority of that Limbuan is inhabited by non-Limbus and culturally that Limbuan is more non-Limbuan than Limbuan. Can anyone give me where the Limbus are in majority except in Panchthar or in pockets of Taplejung? Yes, Limbus were not getting opportunities and so they should be provided special opportunities and quatas and that too without disturbing harmony between ethnic groups in that region. Unbalanced activities will bring disintegration whose ultimate consequence is integration naturally to the south.
Dear Patriot,
Thank you for your reply, you make important points.
The Maoists were very effective (esp. militarily) despite being far to the left of not only the general population but also of the mainstream leftists. Even if a pretty small fraction of one janjati community decides to launch a military campaign, a lot of problems can easily ensue.
Assuming someone is not acting out of purely personal interests (money, power, etc…), no one likes to do things violently. People only resort to military solutions when they do not see any other way out. If the government undertakes programs to uplift janjatis but the tangible benefits cannot be clearly seen for a decade or more, people naturally will think that the system is not taking care of them. On the other hand, something like quotas has an immidiate effect (though very imperfect) which at least gives people some confidence that change is taking place.
This is an excellent point you make. This makes the government purpose two-fold: to uplift the janjatis, and to make it clear that an upliftment is taking place (ie: to show that the government is on their side). The two neccesarily don’t coincide and policies to accomplish the latter do not neccesarily accomplish the former.
What are the alternatives to a quota system to accomplish the second goal? If not outright alternatives, how what can we do to complement the quota system or perhaps have a lower-reservation quota system? I think that supporting janjati languages and cultures would be very helpful, because this is fundamentally an issue of reconciliation of identities. Kathmandu has to make it clear it has a value for people’s identity and is not trying to exterminate “divergent” cultures. Of course this is very important on its own – not just in relation to appeasement.
Its unfortunate that there is little discussion about such vital matters and people are more concerned about what kind of fruit the royal family eats.
raj-well you said it in your own post-ethnic communities are becoming a minority in their own home lands. how do you interpret this? please remember that the Rais and Limbus have been calling what today is Nepal their homeland for more than 2000 yrs and not 250 yrs like some other communities. so if this marginalization continues do you not think there will be problems in an ethnic diverse country like ours?
first thing being a limbu let me tell you mr. limbu and all the rest…. this is not a jatiya yuddha. Limbuwan (pallo kirat) was a state which was never conquered by the then Gorkha Rajya…..it was a paper compromise where Pallo kirat would be inside the greater nepal but an autonomy. and thats all what the limbus want… the same old autonomy which was lost….. limbus are not demanding a soveirgn nation just an autonomous state…..
this is not a racial war…..
and dont be hypocrite….. all of you out there are never tired of bashing the ranas and the shahs….. now that is a racial thing…. this is not.
Limbuwan has the right to be an autonomous state.
“Grabbing the power might be easy job but using it is very difficult.” We already got the good lesson from the King Gyanendra, but SPA has never realised it. How this country was ruled during 237 years under the leadership of monarchy was not well analysed by the SPA. The SPA with the support of M decided everything in “HACHUWA KO BHARMA” just to demoralise or abolish the monarchy system without realising the cosequences. The maoist are the one who ignite the flame of autonomy for their popularity. Huge quantity bloods are flown in the land for this achievements. Then SPA although not supporting to that particular ideology but took it “as in package” of the maoist demand. That is why the the issue of autonomy is rising today in this changing phase, although which might bring the most dangerous for bringing civil war. Any ethnic groups definately expect autonomy because Nepal is ruled by Chettris before and Brahmins now. In this changing phase they expect their role and power to satisfy themselves for their well beings. But how to cope it might be different case. This need very technical and proffesional strategies which till now SPA and now M have not yet realised. This demand of the ethnic groups and autonomy might become SPAM’s worst enemy in future if not handled well.
raj hav u really been in limbuwan area?? i don’t think so cause u will find people of other communitties living as limbu, they speak the language better than many limbus n even participate in limbu cultures. thier lifestyle is influenced from limbu, like trying to join military force either india, singapore or britain, even thier appearance looks somewat similar…..
Hi Kirat,
“raj-well you said it in your own post-ethnic communities are becoming a minority in their own home lands.”
I see your point, but this kind of thinking is problematic. Just because someone is a migrant, does it mean that even after several generations, they cannot call a place home?
I understand that something like the Tibetan situation for instance is very unfortunate. But the Bhutanese King also used similar reasons to kick out Nepali-ethnicity people – they were erroding Bhutanese culture, making them a minority in their own home, etc… At some point, it seems natural that the land be equally considered the land of migrant communities. And if the majority in a certain area has been living there for several generations and they know no other home, why should the region be associated with ethnicity?
The ethnic composition throughout the country (with some exceptions) is not the same as during PNS’s time.
“please remember that the Rais and Limbus have been calling what today is Nepal their homeland for more than 2000 yrs and not 250 yrs like some other communities.”
It seems quite important to note that I don’t think there is any community in Nepal that has been calling it home for just 250 years. If we are talking about Pahadis, they have been in modern Nepal for close to a 1,000 years (probably even more). They have been ruling over the area from the Mahakali to the Kaligandaki area since the Khasa Rajya. No one suddenly rode in from Gujarat and took over the valley 250 years ago.
1,000 years seems much longer than 250, but where do we draw the line? At what point does it “legitimately” become our home too, and not just someone else’s?
rishi-agree with you on your points. perhaps I was being a bit too emotional on the 250 yrs to 2000 yrs issue. but I am glad you understand how it stings us to be marginalised, hassled for citizenship certs., our culture and languages continually ignored by the govt. from any meaningful recognition and called ‘bhote’ (which actually means people from Tibet i.e. Bhot) by the so called mainstream community people when arguably we have been in this land much longer than them.
the debate about Kirats becoming a minority in their own homeland (especially when it comes to land ownership in the more fertile regions) is not simply a question of migration. I am pro-migration. To understand my point you will need to read some books on how the Kirats were systematically robbed of their land (which was their only livelihood) by the Shah kings and their cronies.
It’s time, we speak in terms of where each one lies, the top, middle or bottom, in terms what the political set up in the past and at the present has done for the peoples of the country. A truth is those suffering are still suffering, a handful of people has been running riot, plundering the country, just like in the past just the methods are bit changed, they call it democracy that was given in to the nation after some fight, 1990’s. The Dalits, the Janjatis they have a right to representation , a right to live, a right to prosper a right to be treated as equals that has been denied, in almost every spheres, be it in jobs, education, administration and other fields. They were denied, this is a fact, there must be autonomy, they must be positive discrimination like the one we find in India, how long do the Dalits suffer; Bahuns and Shahs, and their kins rule and others serve, anyone that is born in the land has the right over the resources, the right to equal representation.
The wrongs that has been done in the past and has been continuing even today must be undone, and for that there must a new political set up , the dalits must be there as lawmakers, About the civil war, those are wild suppositions, if things are not settled now in the interests of everyone today, tomorrow there may be such situations, it is 21st century the things that were right for the feudal elements to do yesterday isn’t right to do today. By showing some imaginary enemies, like India , maybe Muslims Ladens, you cannot hide from the real issues about the right form of administration, political set-up, empowerment of the marginalized people,etc.Showing india as a threat and the talk of national unity are diversionary tactis. Why are the Dalits, marginalized people only, to think of ‘Jatiya Ekta’, whenever anything beneficial of them is to be decided they have to forgo for Jatiya Ekta, funny, Regional Autonomy does good for Janjatis and Dalits as also represenation in national assembly and reservation in jobs and scholarship and reservation in education, any party that denies these to the dalits are anti-dalit, That is it. ‘ EK NARA, EK AWAZ, DALIT EKTA, DALIT MUKTI, DALIT UNNATI’
JAI BHIM!
On contrary to the great idealism, global experience shows that community-centric politics (in name of correcting historical blunder, ushering social equality, avenging past discrimination, addressing community pride, etc) has not provided anticipated positive benefits. Instead of uplifting a particular community, it has managed to push forward social unrest, extreme enimity and mutual hatred. Moreover, only a few within a community (especially educated and those near to the ruling class) has immensely benefitted whereas majority are left to be ruled by emerging neo-elites within that community. To make matter worse, neo-elites tend to manipulate to strengthen their hold and keep the majority away from privledges attained through legislation or any other means. And neo-elites try to prolong their hold by chanting “state discrimination” whereas they are the actual perpetuators of the discrimination against their own community. How will it be any different in Nepal? Only saying it will be different in Nepal is like farting in water. Only screaming and theorizing about discrimination, and arguing about political documents that are suggestive of political rights will do nothing. Ensuring political rights will not remove discrimination because illiterate and uneducated lack capability to understand and exercise that right. If we have to remove discrimination, then our focus must be on social sector such as education and health services.
NoPolitics – Your argument actually holds a lot of weight, it made me sit back and rethink. Maybe demand for autonomy is not a great idea. But tell me what is?? In your own words, if believing autonomy can solve problems is like farting in water then your own contention “If we have to remove discrimination, then our focus must be on social sector such as education and health services.” is like shitting in water. Coz theres no time for that. We have but a year or two before this whole thing can fall apart.
My fren – we are not talking about an ideal world/an ideal situation here. You talk of autonomy and stuff like that being an ideal political doc but with a history of failure. And besides we have seen in Nepal when Bahuns/Chettris and others fought against Ranas/Shahs and still fighting .. what are you asking for?? Some self respect in Nepal. So are we. This situation did not happen all of a sudden, it was created through years and years. And I dont think you can argue the fact that it is much more better for Nepal to give us autonomy then deny us and see war in 2 years. We will struggle, we will fail but we will try coz we never had a chance. And we also expect support from the center on many things.
Overall my argument is while you discount my theory you offer a worse alternative.
And you are 100% right when you say “Ensuring political rights will not remove discrimination because illiterate and uneducated lack capability to understand and exercise that right”.
And this is where my theory of a Quota system comes up. Its a 2 way advantage – it will address illeteracy within minority community and second – it will help restrain.
Rest of the bloggers – not that I am averse to criticism but before you bash/discount my ideas, please come up with a good/sensible alternative. It’s a waste of time for all to read the same boring ideal stuff which we know is impractical when time is of essence.
As I said before, community-centric politics will not remove discrimination. Neither it will bring positive benefits. It will only replace previous discrimination with new form of discrimination. Again there will be two classes of people – discriminators and discriminated against. Perhaps, only way to remove this is on the basis of economic forwardness and economic backwardness. Because illiteracy and economic backwardness does not recognize caste or creed or religion. Unfortunately, it will take time and it will not happen immediately. It is not like switching on and off a bulb. As for autonomy, why should it be based on ethnicity only? Cannot it be based on division of geogaphical land such as Eastern Autonomous Region or Western Autonomous Region? We say we are progressive etc, but why cannot we leave behind casteism or ethnicity behind?
The best that can be done is trying to take the issue in terms of communities, jatis, the experience of india is in front of us, has India been disintegrated because it has accepted demarcation of states under linguistic basis which in other words is in terms of community, another, where are the Indian dalits in social and economical status as compared to Nepalese dalits aren’t they far ahead. The best way is clear policies targeted to uplift the oppressed sections of the society. Imagine 25% of the population the population of dalits in Nepal having 1 member in the house in a period of 15+ years. And to speak of the janjatis i think it would be generous to tell that they have had mere 4-5 % representation in the nepal house of representatives, the percentage of the janjatis according to govt statistics is about 48-49, thanks for they being generous, they couldn’t state any lower than that. That is the state of affairs, about representation in jobs , etc,etc, well we know it, and the fellow dalits must be aware of it.
Those of the very concerned type of persons like one Limbu fellow who started the thread, I would like to tell him one thing, the janjatis to whom he too belongs are not the ones that is or have brought this state of affairs, the so called threat to national unity, it is the rulers the grand good parties headed by pundits that have brought the country to this stage. The situation shall further deteriorate if their outlook remains the same, if the dalits, madhesias, muslims, minorities, janjatis are not treated as equal citizens of the country. About my good fellows who are against reservation etc, there is one choice to say, expect a peacefull healthy society by enabling welfare measures or expect continuous strife and blood shed by denying opportunities and rights to the deserving humanity.
JAI BHIM!
No Politics:
Let me help you clear your head a little bit…
“On contrary to the great idealism, global experience shows that community-centric politics (in name of correcting historical blunder, ushering social equality, avenging past discrimination, addressing community pride, etc) has not provided anticipated positive benefits”
– Where did you derive this BS from? Have you been smoking pot lately? And really, what exactly are you trying to state? You are vague at best. You might want to start by looking south of the border instead of just farting nonsense from your arse. First of all you need to realize that “community-centric” politics exist whether you like it or not in various forms, the only question anyone can raise is whether to recognize it or not. So as a democratic person that you are, surely you don’t plan to respect a certain community’s need for recognition by suppressing it?
“Moreover, only a few within a community (especially educated and those near to the ruling class) has immensely benefitted whereas majority are left to be ruled by emerging neo-elites within that community”
– Nonsense again!, maybe few elites have/can benefit, but your argument that ONLY elites in that communities benefit is completely false. On top of this you are assuming that ALL those few elites who benefit will completely ignore his/her community and therefore has no ability to represent at all. Your generalizations are far too stretched at best. A quota system that implements a fair competition (an entrance exam) within that community of concern is certainly far better than not having one at all. It will provide a much better and accelerated form of access for marginalized community that at current stage is virtually non-existent. The question is not about quota system, in fact it is a necessity. The real question is how to implement it so that it fair as possible within a given community. This obviously depends on the kind of quota system we are taking about, for example a quota for higher education will need to have different set of requirements than lets say a quota for a high school scholarships.
“Ensuring political rights will not remove discrimination because illiterate and uneducated lack capability to understand and exercise that right. If we have to remove discrimination, then our focus must be on social sector such as education and health services”
– Ensuring political rights is the first and most essential step into removing discrimination. It allows for people from marginalized communities to voice their opinions…in other words they will truly get their “freedom of speech”. And who said that you need to be educated and literate to understand your problems, your needs and your aspirations? What is needed is to give the marginalized people a chance to speak and voice their needs and opinions. That is what we do by ensuring political rights, and in recent jana andolan that was precisely what was at stake, except at that time nobody had any political rights. And now, as it stands janjatis still do not have their rights fully instilled. Without giving opportunity to the people to express themselves, how to do you plan to implement your social services effectively?
SO QUIT FARTING IN WATER
Ironic,
Show me an example wherein quota system has worked and show where it has uplifted a community as such. Do not come up with hypothetical statement that it will work. There are many examples that show that it has not worked.
As for janjati, every human being is a ‘jan’ and he belongs to human species ot ‘jati’.
Why do not you travel to places in any Terai belt where women are treated as animals, beaten everyday and have no say in any of the political process. They do not have even say in household matters. The men drink everyday and blow up all the money (whatever they earn) in booze and gambling. How will these men or women exercise their ‘freedom of speech’? And how will they exercise their ‘political right’?
If you are so really concerned about ‘freedom of speech’, why are not the voices of Kamiyas are heard or be uplifted from their pathetic condition even after removal of their bondage? Why is that even after granting them ‘political rights’, they are going back to the system of bondage even now?
Staying in some developed area, and after sucking the system dry, do not shed crocodile tears and try to make a career out of ‘janjati’ stuff. Screaming and making smart comments filled with abuse or references to drugs will not make your arguments any stronger.
In Terai, especially in Madeshi community, wife bashing is widespread practice.
Nopolitics-stop the BS ok? Like someone said you are just uttering vague words. You offer no solution to the present problems of discrimination faced by the ethnic populace. I read an article a couple of years(or more) back in the Himal magazine written by Kanak Dixit which stated that pre1990 the percentage of bahun/chettris in govt. service was around 92% but that post 1990 it had risen to 97%. These are the people that make policy and implement it. The fact is that there is discrimination in our country(unless you think that bahun/chettris are genetically superior).
I know this is a sensitive issue but it has to be faced. It cannot be wished away. For me the solution is – 1. Short term, quotas in educational institutions and govt. jobs for marginalized communities (perhaps proportional to the population of each community-perhaps!) 2. long term, provide good access to education for the marginalized communities 3. standardize the spoken Nepali language so that we can all write and read simple Nepali instead of the highly Sanskritized BS that is used in official communications today. Even some of my bahun friends get baffled by some of the Rastra Bank/Tax Office circulars!
If you don’t agree imagine forcing a Bahun/Chettri from outside the valley to give his PSC exams in Newari and see how well he does-sure give him ten years to learn the language, he’ll still struggle more than his Newari brethen who speak the language at home as a mother tongue!
And womens issues (a very important in our country) are a different matter from race issues. Don’t mix them up.
NoPolitics – you surely are a waste of time.
Now I know who you are now. You are one of those who has benefitted (including generations in your family) from this corrupt and feudal system and now you are all out to protect it – a protectionist in it’s truest sense. Your arguments are impratical and one-sided. You surely dont sound dumb but you want to live in denial. While you make a lot of noise you offer no substantive alternative. You talk about a progressive state but you want to remain at status-quo. You talk about things that sound ideal in books but you dont want to acknowledge that Nepal needs a different strategy.
Overall, you tend to divert this debate by trying to lead us into endless spools and irrelevant topics but you REFUSE to face the problem head-on.
What your trying to do right now is convince us “lets not talk about autonomy or Quota coz these can breed communal unrest and is not good for Nepal blah blah”. I’d say – please dont tell us what’s good and what is not for us. You and your community has never been in the receiving end so you have NO idea what it’s like.
Instead why cant you acknowledge theres indeed a real problem here and be open to make a deal with us? This Janaandolan wasnt fought just for you and your community, to get back power from King back into your hands. This andolan was fought mostly by us – THE JANJATIS, THE DALITS AND ALL OTHER MINORITY COMMUNITIES while you and your leaders hid in the valley playing politics and trying to save your ass all along. Now when the tide has changed and its time to talk about commitments made to us, you want to ignore it?? NO WAY BRO. If you are intelligent enought not to want a communal war in Nepal – YOU WILL SIT DOWN AND LISTEN. YOU WILL GIVE US WHAT WE WANT AND YOU WILL BE HAPPY FOR US (actually I wouldnt give a rat’s ass if you arent). BUT THE POINT IS THOU SHALL NO LONGER PUSH US AROUND ANY MORE. COZ I AM MOST AFRAID TO THINK IF THE REST OF PRIVILEDGED COMMUNITIES THINK LIKE YOU, THERE WILL SURELY BE A WAR (and I will be the first to quit my jet set corporate career and go to the jungles). I just hope others dont think in the most selfish way like you do.
And perhaps you should change your pseudonym. Its misleading.
Hello,
“service was around 92% but that post 1990 it had risen to 97%. These are the people that make policy and implement it. The fact is that there is discrimination in our country(unless you think that bahun/chettris are genetically superior).”
Well, this is misleading. I am not denying there is discrimination of course, but its not just about immidiate discrimination here. In cases when one group of people has higher wages and more job opportunities, there is a specific procedure by which we calculate if there is discrimination and how much. The idea is to account for all other factors – education, geographical location, family wealth, etc… A certain portion of the difference in wage/opportunities are accounted for by these factors and then if we measure all the factors, what is left is usually attributed to discrimination.
In America, they study this a lot because of the difference in wages, etc… between black and white people. They did a study where people seeking jobs advertised themselves. Many of the applicants were identically qualified with the only difference being that some had typically black white names. It turned out that those with black last names got a significantly lower number of answers from the employees. This was a good study because they isolated all other factors and saw how much of the difference between black and whites in terms of employment were due to discrimination and how much for other reasons.
This is important to understand because the quota primarily works against immidiate discrimination (ie: discrimination when applying for a job). However, if there is also a difference in education, etc… (which in Nepal there is) these factors have to be dealt with in another fashion. These might point to discriminations elsewhere, but in all cases, we have to go cause-hunting.
I am of course not saying that there is not discrimination in the hiring process itself – of course there will be. But if the primary discrimination is in education, or is simply because of differences in income, perhaps due to geography, then we need to find another method of going about things.
On a related but slightly separate note, I think one very important factor is that families and people have to have a precedent in doing something. In particular in politics, the ethnic groups who are very much present in politics (relative to their population size at least)are Bahun/Chhetri/Thakuri and Newars. This is in no small measure due to the fact that the only people with political experience in the Rana period were these groups. When the anti-Rana movement started (and this formed the basis of all subsequent political parties), these were the only people involved in politics. I think a lot of the political representation differences is due to inertia from those times. And also, very few Nepalis were even literate then (I have read 1% in 1900, 2% in 1950) – those who were, were practically all Brahmins and upper-caste Newars.
This is the only reason I see the quota being helpful other than appeasement. Bahun/Chettri/Newars are relatively active in politics because they had administration/bureaucracy jobs in the Rana period (an arbitrarily too). Keep in mind that they didn’t even neccesarily have powers – both Bahuns and Newars had little actual input in the political process. However, the relation with politics still helped when they wished to enter into it. If other people are given jobs now, it should form the basis for a greater participation in the political process in subsequent years. Even if they struggle because of lack of experience when starting, it should be helpful later on as these people have a basis for becoming more active politically. I think this is the best argument in favour of a quota system.
Rishi – frankly I dont know what to make of your comments above. You talk like an expert in some social research & analysis field (not my area), hence I dont want to criticize you outright, but if you are hoping to offer snazzy examples like these to catch us off-guard in order to deviate/diminish our demands and our rights, you will not succeed.
While what you write maybe true, you have in a way highlighted how our society has unfolded over the centuries/decades. Its a progressive thing you see. Bahuns/Chettris/Newars have had chances in the past, thats why they are successful now. In our case it has been regressive. The state has systematically quashed us. When Kirats ruled parts of Nepal centuries ago, we ushered in the foundations of one of the most modern societies of those times. So many who might think we are genetically dumb are not paying attention.
Man always tries to protect his turf and will always offer innovative ways to hold on to it for as long as possible – even if it belongs to someone else. Without referring to you, I’d be delighted to see what innovative stuff will be offered to us designed to calm us down without giving into our demands/rights. Great examples like you did would be there by plenty. You see I call it “The Imperialist Effect”. Its pretty much like how America spreads its imperialism. It will confuse poorer nations, give them sermons on democracy and the benefits of open markets, patents etc and in the process try and create fertile grounds for themselves to reap profits. But what the poor nations miss out many times/rather dont have a choice is the fact that they are being thrust a top-down solution and not bottom-up, which becomes counterproductive for them.
Once again, while you offer great analysis, it’s all well in the books. We have many planners in Nepal who has these beautiful theories, but execution is key and that is nil. We need a bottom-up solution to Nepal’s jatiya problem, not top-down.
I hope I didnt veer too much from the main highway of topic. Your views actually made sense. The subtlety in mine were directed against those who will use your method to come up with something clever but not genuine.
i sure am hapy to join u patriot, if it remains the same. they will never realize because of thier shit policy n system that they hav implemented in nepal is one of the major cause for all this problems. they hav corrupt mentality always for self interest even being a civil servants, doesn’t care for the service. they woudn’t sign my applications even though i had genuine up to date documents because i am limbu n son of lahure, n he sold his signature for 100 bucks in my own land, a simple example of thier corrupt, oppressing, racial examples that happens everyday to many. shittt, how much to tolerate. no more bro, and when we rise for our rights n wat we deserve they level us as racist, fuelling communal war, n shits. cheap defence, but now we r fking ready…..
Nepal was the only Hindu country in the world where most of the population is converting to Islam. I am sick and tired of being scared from muslims who go on killing in the name of religion. I am also tired of Saudi Arabia funding muslim ministers from Nepal to make mosques and distribute Koran in the streets of Nepal. These are the same groups that slaughtered our brothers in Iraq. These are the same people living in the borders of Nepal and funding terrorism in India. Yes, I completely support these religious and indigineous groups, bc they are there for the protecting themselves when the government cannot.
I being a limbu want back what is mine … so my question to the whole nepal is what is wrong in trying to get back what is mine….. if you think my fight to get back what is mine is wrong then people you are racist and trying to ignite a racial war…… Not me or my people.
No Politics,
You don’t want to stop farting in water do you?
“Show me an example wherein quota system has worked and show where it has uplifted a community as such. Do not come up with hypothetical statement that it will work. There are many examples that show that it has not worked.”
– Here is a link to a study conducted in India with real data. It is 81 pages long, I hope you have the acumen to not only read but understand the report as well.
Click to access reservationinindia.pdf
FYI, when I was telling you to look south of our border, I was telling you to take India as an example, of course being a smart arse you just didn’t get it.
To add to it, Tamil Nadu in India has one the highest % of seats under their quota system, and the rate of development and uplifting of the marginalized group is well correlated to the quota system they implemented.
Now you give me an example where introduction of quota system hindered/reversed progress of backward and discriminated communities. In fact not implementing a quota system in Nepal after 1990 resulted in reversal in involvement of janjatis and the rest of the marginalized communities in the state mechanism.
As I said before, it is not question of whether Nepal needs it or not, it is a question of how to best implement it to maximize its potential.
Oh , see who is here , ‘hindu activist’ and and what is talking-the mullahs is after him ,well got to check if he has wet his trousers, the smell is there, the bullshit has lost his marbles, has gone cranky, mad and is assuming us to be fools to get into his bullshit imaginations, trap.
There has to be reservation, affirmative action, and the proportional representation that has been agreed upon is a betrayal it seems, imagine the bullshit pundits of the leading parties getting to nominate members, rather than the voters decide whom to sent to the house, the direct elections would have ensured that even small communtities send their representatives in the house. This is my understanding, like to know what others feel.
Jai Babasaheb Bhim Rao Ambedkar! Jai Bhim!