UWB received this write up in comment section by the name of apples and oranges. But, we thought it deserves a different space here
Sometimes unnecessary debates come into existence because we fail to
distinguish between the ‘political system’ and ‘individual leaders.’ What
the people are calling for right now is a democratic political system.
They are not fighting to choose between Gyanendra and Girija or Madhav
Nepal. They are basically making it clear that they do not want a
dictatorship of the king (by all definitions, an absolute monarchy is
simply a dictatorship–but a much more entrenched kind than other types of
dictatorship). If we are clear on the distinction between ‘system’ and
‘individual leaders’ then the question of whether we need a hereditary
ruler or not (whether absolute or ceremonial) is almost irrelevant. A
serious flaw in reasoning on the part of critics intent on discrediting
the democratic system in Nepal is that they deliberately equate individual
political leaders to democracy itself. And often we ordinary citizens also
make the same mistake in reasoning and end up repeating the flawed
arguments of such democracy critics.
Nature is probabilistic and not deterministic–so we can never expect any
system to deliver flawless results. The same goes for democracy; as there
are so many factors that affect outcomes and since we cannot say for sure
whether the individuals leading the system will be good or bad, we cannot
for sure say whether the system will always deliver the desired results.
And in the past, our experiment with democracy has indeed yielded many
undesirable outcomes (along with many desirable outcomes as well, by the
way). But this in no way indicates that a dictatorship (monarchy, in our
case) is a better option for us.
First, it would be simply illogical to argue that the failure of democracy automatically shows that a dictatorship is better. Second, people showing sympathy for dictatorship
implicitly assume that the dictatorship will be a benevolent one and end
up contrasting this imagined benevolent dictatorship with a corrupt
democracy. This is equivalent to comparing apples and oranges. If we want
to discuss the relative strengths and weaknesses of these different
systems of government, it is illogical to compare a benevolent
dictatorship with a corrupt democracy. It only makes sense to compare a
benevolent dictatorship with a well-functioning democracy or a tyrannical
dictatorship with a corrupt democracy. And I am sure that in both cases an
impartial judge would inevitably select the same winner–democracy! After
all, if you look at the years since 1990, no one in the country has
plundered and looted the state treasury as much as our beloved monarch
(both by manipulating the laws–by making his salary many times higher
than that of any other head of state in the world; and illegally–I won’t
get into the details for now) who shamelessly talks about corrupt and greedy
leaders.
As for whether we need a head of state other than the Prime Minister–this
question is relevant only because we have decided upon a parliamentary
system rather than a presidential system. So, the issue is not whether or
not we should have a head of state. Rather the question is: what kind of
head of state do we need? Do we want a head of state who is answerable to
the people or do we want to make the position of head of state the
private property of a family? Do we want a head of state to be chosen from
among competent contenders or do we want use ancestry as the sole criterion
for choosing him/her? Do we want a head of state who is obligated to
follow the laws of the country like any other citizen or do we want a
head of state who is above the law? Again, I think any reasonable person
will choose the first option. There is absolutely no reason why a
hereditary head of state is needed to put reasonable checks on the elected
government. That, in fact, would be extremely dangerous (as we have seen a
number of times in Nepal)–especially if the armed forces were answerable
to the head of state only.
What we must keep in mind is that the most
effective way to put checks on the executive branch of the government
(e.g. the cabinet) is by making the other two branches–Legislative, and
Judicial–also strong. And all strong democracies subscribe to this
approach to checks and balances. And, in general, it works well (again, I
say in general because the world is not deterministic). I really don’t
know the assumptions behind saying, “…at least today, we can still
come out on the streets and protest.” But I certainly hope it doesn’t
imply that we can protest because of the merits or benevolence of
Gyanendra’s system–the right to protest this way is a result of the 1990
people’s movement and not because of Gyanendra’s goodwill (in fact, his
system has imposed curfews and other draconian measures to prevent people
from exercising this right). So we can rest assured that a democratic
system where people’s representatives run the government will definitely
be a better option (even if it will have many defects).
Uncertainties make us nervous; the greatest fear is the fear of the
unknown. And, so it is natural for us to cling to the past at times
even when we know deep down that the past was not really glorious in any
way. But in the process of dealing with future uncertainties, let us not
make the mistake of imagining that we still need elements of a dictatorial
system to make Nepal a better place. It is also important to realize that
for a long time the supporters of such system had been able to get many
people to buy into the myth that the monarchy was a unifying force for
all Nepalis; but since the myth has now been completely shattered, there
really can be no further argument in favor of this anachronistic
institution. And, if some of us still find it difficult to get rid of
attachments with that discredited past, try doing the following: imagine a
throne on top of a pile of money that belongs to the people; imagine it is
made of gold and diamonds; and then picture Paras sitting on it with a
cynical grin!
United We Blog 
Comments
91 responses to “In Defense of Democracy”
down with gyan dai
hell with the current govt.
jai janta
jai janta
Monarchy, at least in Nepal is a nuisance. We must do away with this. We are not fighting this battle for political leaders; we are fighting for our political freedom. We, the people, will decide who should run the government.
Really great words, exactly as I want to say. Thanks to both UWB and the author to write. These free and strong comments are the gems of freedom. Let’s fight for freedom. Lets break the prison. Let’s kick the prisoner out of the country.
Oops! it was king not prisoner in my last comment.
hello apple and oranges
please make ur things short and to the point.
i just got quaqmired.
thanks
Good; different opinion.
And much better then few folks nasty discussion in this blog.
I think PM with a parliamentary system is good for present day Nepal.If we have Presidential system, again this President may become dictator and rule the country ruthlessly. And we have C grade leaders who are practcing Bihari politics in Nepal. They do not have any vision for the people and the country.Otherwise, we would not have been in this mess.
Congrats Layman, finally got your nose out of the constitution. But prey who will check the PM’s power? Checks and balances remember?
Why are you blaming Gyane for the 1990 constitution. Then King didn’t made that constitution it was the leaders. The leaders were not farsighted then why to blame Gyane.
When King made a decision to throw Deuba in Feb 1 everybody celebrated why do we celebrated. Because these leaders weren’t good enough. These leaders are still not good because they are same and they are not ready to change themselves. Today also they don’t talk about handing their power to NEW GENERATION.
Apple and Orange talks about the salary raise got by the King. Its not the king who approved his salary to be raised. Its the leaders, because they weren’t good enough or strong to say NO. Do you know why They themselves have earned millions of Dollars by corruption. Who has the calculation of that corruption.
Before 1990 there was corruption that’s why we needed Democracy thinking that it won’t be happening in Democracy. And if it happens too people expect culprit to get punished. It is open secret among people isn’t it?
Yes People still want Democracy NO DOUBT. But people still expects corrupted politicians to be punished after Democracy. People like Khum Bahadur Khadga, Chiranjivi Wagle etc and many many more are still in their party working. How CAN we public believe those party who still has culprits.
WE are trying to change King now but first we need to change leaders.
Apple and orange,
good view, clear words.
We can say here what we want, fine.
But what it is: what do the people want?
It seems only one thing.
And we all know it.
King G better leaves sooner than later, if…
he wants to be sure of hs life.
Yeah
Check and balance makes the democracy powerful. This is the supreme thing about the democracy.
Good Article. It really needs a praise for its witty reasoning.
Aalok
Apple and orange,
thank u for so clearly and logically and beautifully speaking for compromise free democracy.
aren’t we fed up!!!
5 days … 7 … 10 … 12 …15 … 18 … and now 19th DAY…,
Hello .. .does anyone realise, how we are living?
19 days without any work,
This month for sure no salary.
All u guys who live abroad post aggresive messages in support for total democrarcy. But hello do u people even realise HOW HARD LIFE have become in this country?
LOOTING have already started in some parts of the city. What can you expect when daily earning people dont have any source of income for past 19 DAYS?
DONT KILL POOR PEOPLE IN THE NAME OF FIGHT AGAINST AUTOCRARCY WITH FAMINE!!!
Nepalisongs,
people are now ready to sacrifice their life for the sake of freedom and u whining for lost salary.
shame on u!!!!!
u be a slave and eat your bread and we fight till the end.
Taaya, you did not answer my question. Truthfully where are you right now?
GIVE ME ONE REASON.
I mean logical reason, none of philosophical QUOTES bullshits or past history anecdotes, that KING will be giving up autocracy.
It took 15 disasterous days for him just to say, ok boys I will give you PM chair. Enjoy.
So there is no way that he will be giving up his chair or restore anything which will cause to lose monarchy.
So why the hell we are contiously acting like morons and fighting for something which cannot be obtained.
Destorying our own property, killing our own people and mostly making our life hard ourselves.
Forget about any economic losses, the country have been hit by famine, sooon it wil lbecome lawless…, robbery, fight for a peice of bread will start if this kind of curfew persists.
And about politicians and king, they dont have to worry, they are happy having their daily meals peacefully. Its the hungry people, who die on the street, either by eating police batons and bullet or by hunger…..
SO POLITICIANS, speed up your agenda, work fast. Have guts to STAND UP infront of GUN.
Be sure… if ARMY shoots any of the major leaders, KING will be never be spared.
Think up guys before its too late, before nation turns into OUTLAW.
hello Taaya,
u live abroad and are shouting like dog…
hav guts come and live here….
common kirat i have of coursed answered u… that’s waiting the lousy queue of moderation..
and nepali songs and all idiots like u,
why what makes u assume that i live abroad?i am kind of confused.
i guess when u have nothing to say good and logical , u just blame that way..
i am here on my ground to speak for my land…and i will speak wherever i am
and which nepali song are u..
‘haamro raaja, hamro desh..’?
nepalisongs, by the way i donot need guts to live here.
i am happy and comfortable and fortunate to be here
Hello you all,
I’m writing you from France, i’m not Nepalese, but Romanian and i just wanted to let you know I am 200% besides you.
What happens in Nepal makes me think of what my own country lived in 1989 when people came down on the streets and put an end to dictatorship of Ceausescu. the first days the army and the milicia were supporting the dictator, but then they turned their weapons against him and his band of craps.
I don’t understand how come nepalese police and military forces are still supporting “your” king..i mean those who are on the streets facing just-like-them-common-people, they could be shooting their own brothers and sisters???!!!!!!
it’s just too absurd…..
Back in ’89 people came up on the streets with flowers, offering them to the soldiers…..I don’t know if it was that thing that made them rally with the demonstrators, but i mean….you tried stones, and obviously it didn’t work, why don’t trying bringing flowers on tomorrow rally???? you all want peace (and democracy, but the second one wouldn’t exist without peace) try to give this message to the army and the police tomorrow…and may God (yours, ours, what differnce does it make??) be with you!
PS great article, apples and oranges, thanks a lot
vive Loktantra!
Apples and Oranges,
Excellently presented.
Your way of presentation is better than the way celebrity journalists present their articles in BBC, CNN or the Guardian.
KEEP IT UP, SEE U IN A DEMOCRATIC NEPAL.
Plz check this breaking news: in
the articles is too long with only few highlights, as
5 chandra says:
please make ur things short and to the point.
i just got quaqmired.
people are ready to sacrifice… TAAYA… u on drugs ???
it really seems u are fortunate.. cause u can afford to do what u wish… ever thought about people and may i add a hell lot of people who work on a pay per day basis… what about them… arent they nepali too.. u have enough money saved up for rainy days…good on u.. but what about the rest who dont have that luxury…
human rights disregarded by the state??duh?? that right but what about the people who dont want sheeet to do with this agitation … are the people who dont believe in voilence and hungry humans and dont they have right to a normal life….
tantra ism logy…big talks
Taaya………
Is there any difference with U and Syangjali Chasmis?(If u both are same, U understand).
Guys sorry for deviating discussion.
I am firm in my comment Republic Nepal should be our Dream.
Syangjali Chasmis??? i didnot get u…
i am not frm syangja i am from udayapur
replytoall, maybe u r rite. i am in drug of revolution.
Instead of offering STONE to security people
we should try offering FLOWER.
It will make big difference in the PROTEST.
very well written “Apple & Oranges”…i used to think democracy doesn’t need defending as it is well capable of defending itself…i guess as you mentioned when people start comparing apple with oranges, may be it is wise to show them what they should really be comparing…
further, i think people are out on the streets not just to throw a leader (in this case a monarch) but to change the system…i just don’t think they are there to replace Gyanendra with GP or Makune.
Thank you Jay Nepal for supporting my idea….
Bon courage!!
TAYAA so what you doing in the internet all the time today?
should u not be in the PEACEFUL protest vandalizing some public property and burning some tyres…
replytoall !
i have taken part in these demonstrations almost everyday and now i have come to give my participation through this blog too.
“PEACEFUL protest vandalizing some public property and burning some tyres… ” yeah there are tyres burnt and and many things undesirable ;but what an idiot u r only to notice those things and not the peaceful demonstrations.’manchele j khojcha tyahi matra vetcha’ . aandolan means only tyres burt and nothing more than that for u??
i along with many supporters are there to really put our voice peacefully.
Ganye became a King in one night.
Why is it taking so long for Us to get our freedom.? Now my full support goes to THOSE jungleese.
Hi Keep on fighting !
Thanks for your support for our movement.
I am trying to spread your idea.
Instead of offering stone to ARMY/POLICE we must offer
flower and proceed on.
replytoall
your mammy is calling you ! What are you doing here?BEcause you are not being a good boy, mama lost her control and she has strated vandalizing your kitchen. NOw be a nice boy and get the heck outta here, will ya?
Flowers ONLY FLOWERS for army/police! 🙂
please do, Jay Nepal, tomorrow I will be with you, hope to see a flood of people and a flood of flowers going down the streets of kathmandu and everywhere people gather together to protest against your dictator
The article elaborates my mind. I salute to the writer.
Frankly it is time for us to say bye Monarchy. 236 years is much more than enough for you guys to drool.
Taaya, Well you must have noticed that since yesterday the protest crowds are getting smaller. A big one tomorrow I am sure but after that what?
btw have you noticed, the majority of the 2 million in the chakrapath is OUTSIDE ktm valley..its like they are invading the valley !!!
The courage and determination of all those on the street fighting for a Democratic Nepalese Republic is truly inspiring!
Good luck, and don’t give up!
It’s true gyne is not a good king and definately paras won’t be either. But he’s also a citizen of Nepal and after all he’s the fu**ing institution of unity that represents independent Nepal . and i have to say this he got one fuk**ng responsibilty that is to defend his country from the enemy by any means necessary . and rite now let’s say thousand of illetrate and ignorant villager brainwashed by maoist terrosising the country and their close ally SPA your enemy- my enemy turn freindship brain washed supporters and of course maosist out of control in the city setting up chaos by indefinte strike in name of peaceful protest which leavs all of us fu**King stand miserable in house in the name of dream called loktantra(republic). and also pure democracy which never exists at all . so to be true to all those who protesting be prepared for what you want . by killing the king rite now you’ll get a democracy but not a revolution . and after all king will kill many too but don’t forget he might start his own war and nepal will be fu88ing cambodia and afganistan where we all be running around when we see a cargo plane dropping Aids in the very own failed Nepal. and also respect the king not the man in the throne. “Many loosers will inherit the Throne, But It takes One to be a King”
pretty much yeah TAYAAA… andolan to me in nepal and specially KTM means only that… in the course of the 12 years i saw countless number of hadtals and julus and in each of them all i saw was destruction..be it the commies protesting or the NC or anybody… that is what i saw and that is what i see…hijo ni testai thiyo aja ni testai cha ra bholini testai huncha…..
raja has a fair share of mistakes that is undeniable…..but it is just making him a sacrifical lamb for mistakes done by the people in the course of 12 years…. aja ta raja lai dosh diney …. bholi kollai diney????
replytoall
Since my first comment is waiting moderation, I am writing it in plain language to this little fellow ‘replytoall’: Do you have guts to say whatever you have written here infront of hundreds of thousands of people on the street? Otherwise you are coward hiding behind the idiot box to masquerade your true slave identity
SPA should be kicked out of this protest if you want a safe country. it’s the people we belive not
the traitors . they should be chanting we want
DO Ya Kwasi insted of democracy.
kirat,
crowds are somewhat like floods.. now they are big, next they are small and again that is so huge that that can sweep away almost anything.
it is not about only the size of crowd but the important thing is the transformation. once people have come on streets with their voice to fight for their rights, they have shown the world their power. the WAVE is important..that wave is contagious and and has already touched the people. the wave, the power , the energy has already come and that sure will rain on the streets until the monarchy is swept away and a fresh beginning starts.
replytoall
Since my second comment is also waiting for moderation, I just want to tell this fkd up low life creature to fcuk up and hide behind your mama’s saree
replytoall,
u r one without any hope and dreams….any ways, any solutions
so i donot think it necessary to reply u at all.
“the mind of a bigot is like pupil, the more light u want to put in it, the more it shrinks”
when taya shares her bed with some makwanpuree or rolpalee or dangee when republic is installed and commies come.. i wonder how she feel like then..coz she must be knowing under communism everyone should have a fair share of gaas, baas and kapash…be prepared hai taya